Fluff only campaign settings? (Now with a comprehensive list!)

[JoeGKushner]

Although I see your point with the novel, what the statless game book provides are the motivations for NPC's (for which drag and drop NPC stats can usually be found in most good RPG systems), backdrops for more than just a story element in a novel, and juicy tidbits for GM's that might not have seen such elements in a story.

How about the various 'guides to x"? I've seen Dragonriders of Pern, Shanarra, Wheel of Time, and other ficiton lines with resoruce books. Heck, the DK line of books and Star Wars have done more for my campaign than WoTC or WEG.

That is a good reason to have the rules companions to the settings. Yes the GM is the processor, but much like the video game industry, even though the game is the same whether you play it on Wii, Xbox360, or PC, some of the code (rules) that the platforms use to project it on screen is different. With the proposed Rules Companions, the GM doesn't have to do any leg work The setting is statted out for each set of rules and the leg work is just setting up the adventures (depending on your GM style).

Not always true. Some games have exlusive content. Some are simply exclusive. Some are rereleased latter. Rules companions are good but now it's an extra cost. Is it a flat cost that you get one rules companion? Do you have to subscribe?

Very true, but this is not about the crunchy splat books, but a fluffy setting book. If you are using the setting with a system that is heavy on class oriented , feat driven splatter, and the players want to use that with the setting... shouldn't the GM be able to plug that right in? If your player wants to fit in his 3/4-drow/warforge/dragon - soulknife/necromancer/French maid with the kung fu grip and you have the d200 rules companion...where's the harm?

Disagree. Mixing this and that is usually only good for a generic setting and in such a case, perfect for a 'fluff' book as it's assumptions probably stretch back to Tolkien. On the other hand, if it's a low magic setting, that's going to pretty much knock out the warforged part and the dragon and unless it's Norse based, the dark elf no? Setting should be the starting boundries of "what is" not "what can the players drag in." Settings should act as a guide to what's standard and normal and provide room for exceptions but not make the exceptions the norm. If the exceptions become the norm, there's no point in having ANY campaign setting as it's all the same.

Good point. I was more speaking of games I was in where the players would argue with the GM because he had changed cannon material ( I could care less) or we as the players wanted to do something that would vastly throw the metaplot out of whack. Vastly defined settings made for argue fests...but this was solely my experience and why I personally do not buy overwritten settings.

I can agree that arguing with such players such but then I have to ask them, "What's your vested interest if Drizzt is alive?" to get to the crux of the matter.

Thanks for the rebuttal JoeGKushner! I love a different point of view and yours was well written. Although I will NOT be buying forgotten realms any time soon (I have all of the original release, once is enough) I have been following the Eberron setting (guilty pleasure) as one of my standard purchases and it has been fun.

Have Fun Gaming!
Regards,
Walt

You ain't lying about the FR! I've got about three Waterdeep books (my favorite being the box set City of Splendors.)

 

[JoeGKushner]

Very good post on this. Personally, I agree 100%. I wouldn't be the market for a crunchless campaign setting as I would have to come up with all of the stats and everything else. That's why I believe that its imperative to release a crunch book alongside the fluff book for lazy DMs like myself. That's something we'll do for d20 and possibly Runequest if we go this route.

You might want to start releasing the crunch stuff now in small portions in order to build up 'slush' funds to to speak. Themed items, monsters, etc...

How that will translate into a product and what effects it will have has yet to be seen and we may fall flat on our faces with this. Who knows? At least if this is an abyssmal failure like Denizens of Avadnu (and I mean in units sold), we have a back up plan for it and can still use it as a bible for moving Violet Dawn into other mediums. I still have the outlines of the 5 book series burning a hole on my hard drive...

If there's fiction, perhaps an anthology would be the way to start off? And knowing ahead of time what effects are going to take place in the novels is something to think about. Is this going to be a fiction pushed line or is it a gaming line. WoTC can get away with it because they're novels are huge sellers. Other companies and settings like Scarred Lands, whose first trilogy undid some of the biggest aspects of the setting in mid stream, can not.

 

[kroh]

JoeGKushner, even though we seem to be "talking about the elephant from different points of view" I am enjoying your insights on the matter... and as for waterdeep...

I love that Orange Boxed set with the lady vamp on the cover....nothing but maps!

Regards,
Walt

 

[JVisgaitis]

You might want to start releasing the crunch stuff now in small portions in order to build up 'slush' funds to to speak. Themed items, monsters, etc...

We may do that since we have a lot of the crunch already written. When we go print, this time we'll go full color Print on Demand and we will take preorders on that. No way we're getting burned again...

If there's fiction, perhaps an anthology would be the way to start off? And knowing ahead of time what effects are going to take place in the novels is something to think about. Is this going to be a fiction pushed line or is it a gaming line. WoTC can get away with it because they're novels are huge sellers. Other companies and settings like Scarred Lands, whose first trilogy undid some of the biggest aspects of the setting in mid stream, can not.

The outlines for the novels have been written for more then 10 years. I know exactly what's going to happen in them and how it will affect the world. This would be a fiction line and have nothing to do with the game. The game is in its own timeline and won't affect the novels at all and vice versa. We didn't want to jam metaplot down people's throats or have one tramping on the other. Plus, there is an interesting world reason we have that allows DMs to break from the canon in the setting easily if they want to.

Edit: I kinda skirted your point... An anthology is a good idea and certainly something we have considered before we try and dive into a whole series of novels.

 

[tf360]

We may do that since we have a lot of the crunch already written. When we go print, this time we'll go full color Print on Demand and we will take preorders on that. No way we're getting burned again...

The perceived demand for full color is always much greater than the actual demand for full color, especially if it is priced appropriately. Your art is exceptional and full color really does it justice, but as I learned at Bastion, the number of consumers willing to pay substantially more for full color is significantly less than those that will "settle" for black and white at a competitive price. In other words, you may also want to offer a B & W version as well as a full color version.

 

[catsclaw227]

The perceived demand for full color is always much greater than the actual demand for full color, especially if it is priced appropriately. Your art is exceptional and full color really does it justice, but as I learned at Bastion, the number of consumers willing to pay substantially more for full color is significantly less than those that will "settle" for black and white at a competitive price. In other words, you may also want to offer a B & W version as well as a full color version.

<sidenote>Tom, I like your work on Oathbound. I hope that setting is not dead.</sidenote>

I am one of those that readily pays more for full color. It would be irresponsible to assume that a small publisher could price their full color books like WOTC, but that doesn't mean there isn't a market. Having a limited edition full-color run (which then doubles as a PDF) and a B&W run, MIGHT be a nice idea, though the costs of additional B&W art might not make this viable.

I like full color. Denizens of Avadnu, Warlords of the Accordlands, GOO's Game of Thrones, and the Oathbound books looked and felt very nice.

 

[tf360]

<sidenote>Tom, I like your work on Oathbound. I hope that setting is not dead.</sidenote>

Thanks. Greg, the original designer of Oathbound reacquired the license from Bastion in October 2006. To date, the Oathbound site is still down, and I haven't heard anything in terms of new projects. I'd be shocked if anything happens with Oathbound. It's a shame because the entire Player's Guide is sitting on my hard drive where it'll probably stay for quite some time.

 

[tf360]

I am one of those that readily pays more for full color. It would be irresponsible to assume that a small publisher could price their full color books like WOTC, but that doesn't mean there isn't a market. Having a limited edition full-color run (which then doubles as a PDF) and a B&W run, MIGHT be a nice idea, though the costs of additional B&W art might not make this viable.

It depends upon the type of art you use. I'm pretty sure that digital art can easily be used in a full color and B&W book. Non-digital art is probably a different story, although I wasn't involved in the layout aspects so I'm not 100% sure.

Also to get a little back on topic, I stand corrected on the amount of fluff in the Castlemourn campaign setting. I had only seen an early copy of the book. The current version is about 1/3 crunch and 2/3 fluff.

 

[catsclaw227]

Thanks. Greg, the original designer of Oathbound reacquired the license from Bastion in October 2006. To date, the Oathbound site is still down, and I haven't heard anything in terms of new projects. I'd be shocked if anything happens with Oathbound. It's a shame because the entire Player's Guide is sitting on my hard drive where it'll probably stay for quite some time.

I posted a question in another thread to prevent threadjack...

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?p=3371588

 

[JVisgaitis]

The perceived demand for full color is always much greater than the actual demand for full color, especially if it is priced appropriately. In other words, you may also want to offer a B & W version as well as a full color version.

No arguments there. Plus, no one really wanted to pay for a $40 book from a company they never heard of before. I don't know how well our work would translate to B&W, but it is something worth considering...

It depends upon the type of art you use. I'm pretty sure that digital art can easily be used in a full color and B&W book. Non-digital art is probably a different story, although I wasn't involved in the layout aspects so I'm not 100% sure.

It would really depend on the artist in question. Black and light work requires a lot more constrast. You can probably mess around with the levels in Photoshop to get the product to look good, but that wouldn't be true of all artists work.