knightofround
First Post
I really enjoy D&D's combat system. But one thing that has always annoyed me is the forced movement mechanic. More specifically, using a power that exerts a mega-push that can only move an opponent one square. And the total pointlessness of Bull Rush.
So here's a couple ideas on how to make forced movement more powerful. Please let me know if you see something heavily exploitable in them.
1. Rewrite: Push
Push is forced movement. Each square you move the target cannot be closer to you. You cannot end the push within an occupied square.
If you push a target against a barrier or an occupied square, and there are squares of forced movement remaining, then you can choose to use the following effects: The first extra square knocks the target prone, and each additional extra square of push deals 1d6 falling damage. If the target is trained in Acrobatics, as a free action they can make an Acrobatics check to reduce the damage taken as if it were a fall of equivalent height. For example, if you execute a push an adjacent target 5 squares away from you, and there is a wall 2 squares away from the target, then the target is pushed adjacent to the wall (2 squares of movement), knocked prone (1 square of movement), and receives an additional 2d6 damage (2 squares of movement), for a total of 5 squares of movement.
2. Rewrite: Pull
Pull is forced movement. Each square you move the target cannot be further away from you. You cannot end the pull within an occupied square.
If you pull a target towards you, and there are squares of forced movement remaining, then you can choose that the target suffers a penalty to AC until the beginning of your next turn. This penalty is equal to the number of squares remaining on the pull. For example, if the target is 2 squares away from you, and you execute a pull of 5 squares towards you, then the target is pulled 1 square to be adjacent to you, and then suffers a -4 penalty to AC until the beginning of your next turn.
3. Rewrite: Slide
Whenever you slide a target, choose one of the following three options: First, you can push the target. Second, you can pull the target. Third, you can guide the target.
4. New addition: Guide
Guide is forced movement.
You can guide the target in any direction, and can change directions mid-guide. However, you cannot guide the target either into or through occupied squares.
5. Rewrite: Bull Rush
Bull Rush: Standard action
Target: You can bull rush a target adjacent to you that is smaller than you, the same size category as you, or one size category larger than you.
Strength Attack: Make a Strength attack vs. Fortitude. Do not add any modifiers for the weapon you use.
Hit: Push the target up to a number of squares equal to the difference between checks, divided by five, rounded up, limited by your speed. Then pull yourself toward the nearest adjacent square to the target. If you cannot end your pull within the nearest adjacent square to the target, then your self-pull ends in the last square you could occupy. For example, if you make a strength attack of 22 vs. a fortitude save of 11, then the difference is 11. So you push the opponent up to three squares, and then shift towards the nearest adjacent square to the target.
6. Addition: Moving through occupied squares
If you start your turn prone within an enemy occupied square, you cannot take any standard or full round actions until you move into an unoccupied square.
Also, here's the entry on forced movement which I would slightly alter:
FORCED MOVEMENT
(removed)✦ Line of Effect: You must have line of effect to any
square you pull, push, or slide a creature into.(/removed)
✦ Distance in Squares: The power you’re using specifies
how many squares you can move a target. You
can choose to move the target fewer squares or not
to move it at all. You can’t move the target vertically.
✦ Specific Destination: Some powers don’t specify a
distance in squares but instead specify a destination,
such as “adjacent” (a square adjacent to you).
✦ No Opportunity Actions: Forced movement does
not provoke opportunity attacks or other opportunity
actions.
✦ Ignore Difficult Terrain: Forced movement isn’t
hindered by difficult terrain.
✦ Not a Move: Forced movement doesn’t count
against a target’s ability to move on its turn. A target’s
speed is irrelevant to the distance you move it.
======
Well, what do you think? I'm a little worried about the extra math on Bull Rush, and I'm a bit concerned about adding additional complexity to push/pull/slide, but I think these changes would make forced movement more useful overall. I've also modified it so you can push/pull opponents sideways, as long as they stay within the same distance of you. But I'm wondering if that's exploitable, and I don't want the guides (aka slides) to be weakened too much vs. push/pull. I'm also a bit concerned that pull becomes too powerful an offensive tool.
One thing that I really wanted to add to pushes is make it so if you push an enemy across an occupied square, it knocks the creature in the occupied square prone. But I worried that it would make pushes too powerful...and it would also necessitate adding even more complexities to forced movement (like differentiating between ally and enemy occupied squares, as well as size differentials, and saves to avoid being knocked prone). I think there's too much added complexity in the stuff above already.
So here's a couple ideas on how to make forced movement more powerful. Please let me know if you see something heavily exploitable in them.
1. Rewrite: Push
Push is forced movement. Each square you move the target cannot be closer to you. You cannot end the push within an occupied square.
If you push a target against a barrier or an occupied square, and there are squares of forced movement remaining, then you can choose to use the following effects: The first extra square knocks the target prone, and each additional extra square of push deals 1d6 falling damage. If the target is trained in Acrobatics, as a free action they can make an Acrobatics check to reduce the damage taken as if it were a fall of equivalent height. For example, if you execute a push an adjacent target 5 squares away from you, and there is a wall 2 squares away from the target, then the target is pushed adjacent to the wall (2 squares of movement), knocked prone (1 square of movement), and receives an additional 2d6 damage (2 squares of movement), for a total of 5 squares of movement.
2. Rewrite: Pull
Pull is forced movement. Each square you move the target cannot be further away from you. You cannot end the pull within an occupied square.
If you pull a target towards you, and there are squares of forced movement remaining, then you can choose that the target suffers a penalty to AC until the beginning of your next turn. This penalty is equal to the number of squares remaining on the pull. For example, if the target is 2 squares away from you, and you execute a pull of 5 squares towards you, then the target is pulled 1 square to be adjacent to you, and then suffers a -4 penalty to AC until the beginning of your next turn.
3. Rewrite: Slide
Whenever you slide a target, choose one of the following three options: First, you can push the target. Second, you can pull the target. Third, you can guide the target.
4. New addition: Guide
Guide is forced movement.
You can guide the target in any direction, and can change directions mid-guide. However, you cannot guide the target either into or through occupied squares.
5. Rewrite: Bull Rush
Bull Rush: Standard action
Target: You can bull rush a target adjacent to you that is smaller than you, the same size category as you, or one size category larger than you.
Strength Attack: Make a Strength attack vs. Fortitude. Do not add any modifiers for the weapon you use.
Hit: Push the target up to a number of squares equal to the difference between checks, divided by five, rounded up, limited by your speed. Then pull yourself toward the nearest adjacent square to the target. If you cannot end your pull within the nearest adjacent square to the target, then your self-pull ends in the last square you could occupy. For example, if you make a strength attack of 22 vs. a fortitude save of 11, then the difference is 11. So you push the opponent up to three squares, and then shift towards the nearest adjacent square to the target.
6. Addition: Moving through occupied squares
If you start your turn prone within an enemy occupied square, you cannot take any standard or full round actions until you move into an unoccupied square.
Also, here's the entry on forced movement which I would slightly alter:
FORCED MOVEMENT
(removed)✦ Line of Effect: You must have line of effect to any
square you pull, push, or slide a creature into.(/removed)
✦ Distance in Squares: The power you’re using specifies
how many squares you can move a target. You
can choose to move the target fewer squares or not
to move it at all. You can’t move the target vertically.
✦ Specific Destination: Some powers don’t specify a
distance in squares but instead specify a destination,
such as “adjacent” (a square adjacent to you).
✦ No Opportunity Actions: Forced movement does
not provoke opportunity attacks or other opportunity
actions.
✦ Ignore Difficult Terrain: Forced movement isn’t
hindered by difficult terrain.
✦ Not a Move: Forced movement doesn’t count
against a target’s ability to move on its turn. A target’s
speed is irrelevant to the distance you move it.
======
Well, what do you think? I'm a little worried about the extra math on Bull Rush, and I'm a bit concerned about adding additional complexity to push/pull/slide, but I think these changes would make forced movement more useful overall. I've also modified it so you can push/pull opponents sideways, as long as they stay within the same distance of you. But I'm wondering if that's exploitable, and I don't want the guides (aka slides) to be weakened too much vs. push/pull. I'm also a bit concerned that pull becomes too powerful an offensive tool.
One thing that I really wanted to add to pushes is make it so if you push an enemy across an occupied square, it knocks the creature in the occupied square prone. But I worried that it would make pushes too powerful...and it would also necessitate adding even more complexities to forced movement (like differentiating between ally and enemy occupied squares, as well as size differentials, and saves to avoid being knocked prone). I think there's too much added complexity in the stuff above already.
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