Level Up (A5E) Martial Artistry (3pp book in the works) Ideas and Concepts

[lichmaster]

Barebones simplified mass combat:

Take a creature from the MM and apply the Mass Combat template.

HP becomes "Morale". Creature loses the ability to roll for damage and always takes the average. Unit gains a "Passive Attack Roll", cannot roll natural 1s on attack and cannot roll lower than the passive attack roll which is 8+Attack mod, unless they have disadvantage. Unit gains a combat role (Artillery, Flanker, Front Line, Support). Unit gets assigned a size.

Small units are 20 medium sized or small creatures or 5 large creatures. Medium units are 50 medium or 10 large, large units are 100 medium or 25 large.
You cannot make units out of creatures bigger than large or smaller than small.
Units take half damage from PCs and NPCs, full damage from Units.
Units deal double damage to PCs and NPCs, normal damage to Units.
When a large unit hits Bloodied it must make a Death Save or become a medium unit.
When a medium unit hits Bloodied it must make a Death Save or become a small unit.
When a small unit's Morale becomes bloodied they must make a Death Save or be Routed/Defeated.
At 0hp a unit is destroyed. There may be a handful of survivors, but they flee the battle or get captured.
A unit cannot be 'healed' into a higher size category. A large unit that fails it's save remains a medium sized unit after the battle.

When a unit increases from small to medium, or medium to large, it gains +50% HP and Damage, and a +2 to Proficiency bonus.

I think the interaction with PCs could benefit from more tweaking.
A large unit of 100 bandits is waaay weaker than 100 bandits. Even very high level melee characters would probably die fighting 100 bandits due to 5e's flat math approach, but a large unit of bandits could be defeated quite easily by a level 5 fighter.

 

[Steampunkette]

I think the interaction with PCs could benefit from more tweaking.
A large unit of 100 bandits is waaay weaker than 100 bandits. Even very high level melee characters would probably die fighting 100 bandits due to 5e's flat math approach, but a large unit of bandits could be defeated quite easily by a level 5 fighter.

Pretty much any system is going to break down at extremes. Either it's way too deadly at low levels (50 bandits just outright kill a party without hesitation and minimal retaliation) or too easy at high end. The answer isn't to continue overdeveloping the system around the edge cases... it's to make it clear to the narrator that the edge cases exist and should not be used thoughtlessly.

Players aren't actually -meant- to fight the 100 bandit group or the 20 bandit group. They're meant to be the abstract background fight to the players beating up the boss while still providing some sense of a larger fight going on with it's own stakes in the background that the players get to influence by directing enemies against one another. Which is more interesting for 7th level characters: 1 particularly burly ogre they have to hit twice to do full damage to or 5 separate ogres in one fight?

That said... if you want a party to go full Dynasty Warriors on low-tier threat groups this would be an awesome way to fulfill that fantasy and who am I to yuck someone's yum?

 

[W'rkncacnter]

Pretty much any system is going to break down at extremes. Either it's way too deadly at low levels (50 bandits just outright kill a party without hesitation and minimal retaliation) or too easy at high end. The answer isn't to continue overdeveloping the system around the edge cases... it's to make it clear to the narrator that the edge cases exist and should not be used thoughtlessly.

Players aren't actually -meant- to fight the 100 bandit group or the 20 bandit group. They're meant to be the abstract background fight to the players beating up the boss while still providing some sense of a larger fight going on with it's own stakes in the background that the players get to influence by directing enemies against one another. Which is more interesting for 7th level characters: 1 particularly burly ogre they have to hit twice to do full damage to or 5 separate ogres in one fight?

That said... if you want a party to go full Dynasty Warriors on low-tier threat groups this would be an awesome way to fulfill that fantasy and who am I to yuck someone's yum?

i think @lichmaster does have a point, though. i love the option of being able to go full dynasty warriors on entire companies at once, but level 5 is pretty early for that to be a viable option. imo, it'd probably be better if it was balanced so that you needed to be at least around level 10 or so before that actually became a thing you could really viably do (even if that's not the intent - someone WILL try it).

 

[Steampunkette]

i think @lichmaster does have a point, though. i love the option of being able to go full dynasty warriors on entire companies at once, but level 5 is pretty early for that to be a viable option. imo, it'd probably be better if it was balanced so that you needed to be at least around level 10 or so before that actually became a thing you could really viably do (even if that's not the intent - someone WILL try it).

I don't really want to lose what the simplified system has... simplicity. It turns hundreds of NPCs into 2-3 stat blocks so you're just handling a couple of more enemies in a secondary fight. It's simple, it's clean, and it works wonders 'til players try to punch a contingent of bandits.

What about an optional system overlay? A secondary rulekit you can use on top of the more basic one. Something like...

Squad Template | Level Up

a5e.tools

"When players seek to engage a Unit break the unit down into squads of 10 individuals. A large bandit unit becomes 10 squads of bandits." "For units made of large creatures, break them down into squads of 5 individuals"

That said... maybe I should reduce the damage players can do to a unit to 'basic melee, ranged, or magic damage'. Then define the latter two as 1+Dex and 1+Spellcasting Modifier.

 

[DarkRainbowFiend]

In regards to mass combat, is there mechanics about a mass combat unit getting bonuses based on who is the unit's commander?

 

[Steampunkette]

In regards to mass combat, is there mechanics about a mass combat unit getting bonuses based on who is the unit's commander?

The intention is that every group has a weakness against one of the others. And are at disadvantage to attack that unit type.

Having a commander PC or NPC gives them advantage to attack two of the other unit types. For example Artillery is strong against Front Line and Support with a PC leader, and disadvantage against Flankers. Artillery versus Artillery is always a flat roll (barring other circumstantial bonuses)

The intent is to be a super lightweight mass combat system for ease of play. Though there's a desire for something more complex so I've been working on some different concepts to make the simple one the core, with a bunch of optional rules to give it greater complexity for those who desire something more crunchy. Particularly those who want to pit PCs directly against Units...

 

[DarkRainbowFiend]

The intention is that every group has a weakness against one of the others. And are at disadvantage to attack that unit type.

Having a commander PC or NPC gives them advantage to attack two of the other unit types. For example Artillery is strong against Front Line and Support with a PC leader, and disadvantage against Flankers. Artillery versus Artillery is always a flat roll (barring other circumstantial bonuses)

The intent is to be a super lightweight mass combat system for ease of play. Though there's a desire for something more complex so I've been working on some different concepts to make the simple one the core, with a bunch of optional rules to give it greater complexity for those who desire something more crunchy. Particularly those who want to pit PCs directly against Units...

i also wonder, considering the marshal's whole thing, if you have ideas to incorporate the mass combat system into the marshal (like a couple of new class-exclusive knacks when being a leader of a unit).

 

[le Redoutable]

just one funny thing ( from my system, GAYCOP in french, WAYCOT in english )
to create a Martial Artist, merge Warrior with Creator;
a Monk uses the Acrobat/Thinker combo,
,
and the third Class is Yoghin combined with Orator...
you can create three types of Martial Artists that way

 

[Steampunkette]

Woke up at 0-dark:30 this morning because I had to write and couldn't sleep.

Cranked out about 3,000 words for the Sentinel...

It's now up to almost 10,000 words, though a GIANT portion of it are the 10 companions which are basically their own classes. Each gets a total of nine abilities over the course of leveling. Well. 10 if you count the Synergy Training they all get but I just copy-pasted that one across them all.

I'm almost done with -one- of the four Archetypes at this point...

 

[Steampunkette]

The Sentinel is now complete. Just over 10,000 words.

Roughly 5,900 of them dedicated to the 10 companions you get to choose from.

I think I need a nap.