Forced Movement and Walking Wounded

[FadedC]

Where, in the letter of the rules, are "entering" and "leaving" squares thus defined, and thus made distinct from "moving into" squares?

I'm not aware of any reference to "moving into squares". There are however quite a few references to moving, which is what is referenced by the walking wounded power, and which the rules on forced movement make it clear your not doing on a push, pull or slide.

As for definitions of what entering a square and leaving a square means, this should be pretty obvious.

Edit: There are actually a few powers that do not push, pull or slide their target but instead force them to move. These would trigger walking wounded because a move action is being taken (even if it is taken out of turn).

Ironically powers that force a target to take a move action would not in fact be counted as forced movement, at least as described by the forced movement heading.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Thinking on it - if forced movement DOESN'T trigger the enter/leave/move events, then perhaps that is not a bad thing. It only really stops you from getting the zone's effect twice for every time you push them into it (ie - once for when you push them in, and again when they start their turn there).

OTOH, if forced movement DOES trigger them, then forced movement becomes more powerful, and moves the balance of the game towards a more dynamic battlefield. Additionally walking wounded is a pretty cruddy power if there's no way to combine it with other effects - it essentially becomes a very weak slow with the caveat that if the enemy really needs to, he can move at full speed. Also - the distance you need to shove someone to get them to fall over is typically quite a distance: it's not childs play to get that sort of travel from a forced movement effect.

Whoops, scratch that. It ALSO knocks the foe prone immediately. The power is fine either way.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I'm not aware of any reference to "moving into squares".

Wall of Fire.

Ironically powers that force a target to take a move action would not in fact be counted as forced movement, at least as described by the forced movement heading.

Right... which is why Come and Get It doesn't work on someone who's prone. If it were a Pull, you could affect a prone opponent; since, rather, it induces him to Shift, and he can't Shift while prone, it fails.

-Hyp.

 

[Alraiis]

Wall of Fire.

Also storm cage, for what that's worth.

 

[Goumindong]

So what's your ruling on Forced Movement and Blood Pulse - the creatures takes damage for each square it leaves?

What about the Wall of Fire or Blade Barrier example?

-Hyp.

The wording is very specific and different on each.

Wall of Fire/Blade Barrier... "When a creature enters". Blood Pulse "Every square it leaves"

Had those powers been intended to be the other way, the text would read. "When a creature moves into" or "For every square a creature moves"

E.G. "Moving" refers to the creatures locomotion and its move action(s)

edit: it seems Wall of Fire is actually "moves into" and not "enters" like most other zones. This means that if you are pushed into a wall of fire you do not take damage immediately.

Now the real question is, because you don't take damage immediately, does this mean that you also don't get a saving throw for being pushed into hindering terrain?

 

[Hypersmurf]

E.G. "Moving" refers to the creatures locomotion and its move action(s)

DMG p44, regarding Forced Movement: "If the power that forced the target to move..."

PHB p57, regarding Forced Movement: "If a hit grants you the ability to compel the target to move, whether through forced movement or teleportation..."

 

[Hypersmurf]

E.G. "Moving" refers to the creatures locomotion and its move action(s)

DMG p44, regarding Forced Movement: "If the power that forced the target to move..."

PHB p57, regarding Forced Movement: "If a hit grants you the ability to compel the target to move, whether through forced movement or teleportation..."

What did the power do? It forced the creature to move. It compelled the creature to move. Did the creature move? Yes, that's what it was forced or compelled to do.

-Hyp.

 

[Alraiis]

Hyp's right. Even the section on 285 that says "Not a Move:" says "A target's speed is irrelevant to the distance you move it."

 

[Hypersmurf]

Hyp's right. Even the section on 285 that says "Not a Move:" says "A target's speed is irrelevant to the distance you move it."

Well, that's not quite the same - "You move X" and "X moves" could be considered different concepts. But DMG44 and PHB57 both refer to the target moving.

-Hyp.

 

[FadedC]

Right... which is why Come and Get It doesn't work on someone who's prone. If it were a Pull, you could affect a prone opponent; since, rather, it induces him to Shift, and he can't Shift while prone, it fails.

-Hyp.

Not to derail the thread too much, but is there any actual rule that says you can't shift while prone? It recently came up in a play and it would be really helpful to know.