D&D 5E Forgotten Realms deities in 5E: Who the hell is Marthammor Duin?

[drjones]

That said, is nobody else annoyed by or uncomfortable with racial deities? "Sorry, you're a dwarf, so you have to worship this dwarf travel-god; we don't serve your kind in the elven pantheon."

Nah, I think it's reasonable from real-world examples (Greek gods look like Greeks? Amazing!) but also remember that this is fantasy land. People have probably run into the gods and chatted with them. And when they do that, why wouldn't they appear in the image of their worshipers? Hell they could even be aspects of some pure ideal that is incarnated in several racial deities. That's just good marketing.

Or maybe it is commentary on human nature?

[TABLE="width: 100%"][TR][TD]"The god of the cannibals will be a cannibal, of the crusaders a crusader, and of the merchants a merchant."

[/TD][/TR][TR][TD] -- Ralph Waldo Emerson[/TD][/TR][/TABLE]

 

[Scrivener of Doom]

Stealing from the wonderful Iron Druid novels by Kevin Hearne, the gods take on the forms their worshippers give them. Thus the dwarven dieties look like dwarves, elven like elves, etc. And the same god would appear differently to different worshippers, maybe by different names. And mutliple gods of the same name can coexist if there are differences attributed to them by their worshippers.

That's also almost entirely consistent with Ed Greenwood's view of the deities he created.

 

[Alzrius]

That's also almost entirely consistent with Ed Greenwood's view of the deities he created.

I dunno about that. When Ed put his early writings into D&D, he imported large sections of the First Edition materials wholesale, such as the monsters, planar structure, and most of the racial deities. He wrote his own human pantheon, to be sure, but he seemed to have no problem saying "and all of these gods of the elves, dwarves, etc. from Dragon magazine are in here too."

 

[Scrivener of Doom]

I dunno about that. When Ed put his early writings into D&D, he imported large sections of the First Edition materials wholesale, such as the monsters, planar structure, and most of the racial deities. He wrote his own human pantheon, to be sure, but he seemed to have no problem saying "and all of these gods of the elves, dwarves, etc. from Dragon magazine are in here too."

What you are saying in no way contradicts the point I was making.

At Candlekeep, Ed has explained his theory that there are basically a handful or so of major powers and the deities of the Realms are just different faces of those major powers. You can see this much more clearly in the limited pantheon he created for Castlemourn.

 

[gyor]

Nope, like the large pantheons. I will say I noticed no mention of exarchs his character sheet discription, just what he is a god of. Hopeful this means there getting rid of the silly exarch term, which is confusing, even to FR authors.

 

[doctorhook]

I have to ask, where in 5th is it written that dwarves HAVE to worship Dwarven deities? Or elves the elvish gods?

(I have always played it that it was COMMONPLACE, but not universal.)

I find this to be less of a problem than the reverse: humans don't worship dwarven or elven gods. Since human deities are considered "the normal/mainstream pantheon" (fantasy-racist as it may sound), for the sake of game-simplicity why not make like 4E and just do away with or fold-in explicitly racial pantheons? YMMV, but this is an approach I may take.

Stealing from the wonderful Iron Druid novels by Kevin Hearne, the gods take on the forms their worshippers give them. Thus the dwarven dieties look like dwarves, elven like elves, etc. And the same god would appear differently to different worshippers, maybe by different names. And mutliple gods of the same name can coexist if there are differences attributed to them by their worshippers.

Honestly this is a great solution. I know the Sovereign Host of Eberron uses this approach, and I think 4E core also spelled out that deities can take the form of any race. Still, this approach would be a significant retconning of Realmslore.

Nope, like the large pantheons. I will say I noticed no mention of exarchs his character sheet discription, just what he is a god of. Hopeful this means there getting rid of the silly exarch term, which is confusing, even to FR authors.

There seems to be a word missing in your first line, but I'm reading it as, "Nope, I like the large pantheons." If that's how you feel, do you mind if I ask why? Do you not feel many of these gods are redundant and superfluous, not to mention confusing to new players?

You may not like the concept of exarchs, but I plan to continue with it. Without having to commit to any stats or divine ranks, the term exarch lets me say, "Here's a divine being--a god--that you may not have heard before because he's either so minor or merely an associate of a more important deity."

 

[Agamon]

The only problem I have with the racial deities is that it inflates an already enormous pantheon. I just use the human deities and say that the other races have their own names/versions of those gods.

 

[Dire Bare]

I have to ask, where in 5th is it written that dwarves HAVE to worship Dwarven deities? Or elves the elvish gods?

(I have always played it that it was COMMONPLACE, but not universal.)

I find this to be less of a problem than the reverse: humans don't worship dwarven or elven gods. Since human deities are considered "the normal/mainstream pantheon" (fantasy-racist as it may sound), for the sake of game-simplicity why not make like 4E and just do away with or fold-in explicitly racial pantheons? YMMV, but this is an approach I may take.

Who can worship whom in the 5E rules isn't written anywhere yet . . . despite the playtest rules and lots of previews, the game is not yet published.

Having said that, I highly doubt you'd find such a rule anywhere in the 5th Edition game. Likely, humans, dwarves, elves, and everybody else will be able to worship anybody they want to. Elves will usually revere elven gods, dwarves dwarven gods, humans human gods, but I highly doubt that they will be restricted to their own racial pantheon.

And even if it is a rule in the new game, pretty darn easy to fix. Seems to be a complete non-issue to me.

 

[doctorhook]

Who can worship whom in the 5E rules isn't written anywhere yet . . . despite the playtest rules and lots of previews, the game is not yet published.

Having said that, I highly doubt you'd find such a rule anywhere in the 5th Edition game. Likely, humans, dwarves, elves, and everybody else will be able to worship anybody they want to. Elves will usually revere elven gods, dwarves dwarven gods, humans human gods, but I highly doubt that they will be restricted to their own racial pantheon.

And even if it is a rule in the new game, pretty darn easy to fix. Seems to be a complete non-issue to me.

Of course, you're right: we'll have to wait and see what 5E actually says. I'll even go one step further: it seem pretty damn unlikely that 5E will prohibit any character from worshiping any deity. My problem is that I'm pedantic and don't see the purpose of racial pantheons and redundant deities.

You're right that it's a non-issue. Obviously the only reason for a sprawling pantheon in FR is to stay true to Realmslore, which is exactly no better nor worse than any other reason to include them. We're only discussing it because I prefer concise pantheons, so a main character who worships an obscure minor deity threatens my (sensitive) suspension of disbelief.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

My problem is that I'm pedantic and don't see the purpose of racial pantheons and redundant deities.

They're not redundant. ELves aren't Dwarves aren't Orcs aren't Gnomes aren't Humans aren't Elves. For centuries, the Japanese, Chinese, Koreans and Vietnamese all had different religious beliefs and gods despite all being humans in relatively close geographical proximity.