FR - details on the spellplague

[Echohawk]

For the last editions - especially the before last editions - I have even to consult not so legal ways of getting the information.

No you don't. As I pointed out a few messages back, almost all of the older Forgotten Realms material can be purchased in PDF format. You do not need to break the law to get that material.

 

[sunmaster]

No you don't. As I pointed out a few messages back, almost all of the older Forgotten Realms material can be purchased in PDF format. You do not need to break the law to get that material.

I know, I read it.

But I think that you need a credit card to buy at Paizo - because most purchases in the USA are with credit cards -. So this is not an option for me and also for the most people where I live - for example I know not one person who has a credit card.

In the end: You can look from which angle you want at the new edition of FR , it will be easier for the new FR players because
A) you can very easily keep up with all the information as the new world will be written from the ground up.
B) the books you can purchase easily with local purchasing methods because they will be new.
C) In the discussions and in the games (at home, at the various Cons) you will be on one level with all other persons because everyone has only and only this new written book - and no one can derail your gaming session because you missed the book in 1989 where it is written that Cormyr is a wasteland and no one builds cities there but you just tried to introduce a million person city in the center of Cormyr -.

 

[Echohawk]

But I think that you need a credit card to buy at Paizo - because most purchases in the USA are with credit cards -. So this is not an option for me and also for the most people where I live - for example I know not one person who has a credit card.

According to this page Paizo also accept cheques and money orders (in US dollars). Presumably you'd need to visit your bank to organise that, but you can buy the PDFs without a credit card. Alternatively, RPGNow seems to accept payment via Paypal (although I haven't tested this), and they also have a full range of Forgotten Realms PDFs, so you might want to investigate that option.

Finally, Wizards have also made dozens of older Forgotten Realms products available for free download here. You won't need a credit card to get those.

In the end: You can look from which angle you want at the new edition of FR , it will be easier for the new FR players because

I agree with all of these reasons, and like you, I'm looking forward to the new FR Campaign Setting.

But saying that the older material is only available illegally is not a good reason for supporting the "reset".

 

[sunmaster]

Okay guys I have found it, the words which I tried to write since three posts but could not come up with because my English is not so good.

Over on the FR forums of Wizards a forums member named Drakshasak writes and this, this is what I meant with difficulties with the actual edition of FR:

This will be a very welcomed change for newcomers. i dont know if youve tried it but it really sucks to start on a campaign and youve read the campaign setting and you might feel you have a pretty good idea of whats what in this campaign. then you get to play with someone who has accumulated knowledge based on huge amounts of books and endless hours in front of the internet and suddenly you are a bit scared to say anything about some country because you know the guys next to you has read a whole novel based in that country and he can allways out talk any argument.

This way it gives anyone a common starting place and at the same time letting everyone keep playing in Forgotten Realms.

http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14809981&postcount=29

@Echohawk:
Thank you very much for giving me the tips and the links. I appreciate it. The free downloads I have long since downloaded and looked into them but it is too much material that I could use them to make an adventure or even a campaign.

But I don't see the need for buying into 3rd Ed. now, when soon the new FR will be released and
it will not only new and fresh but in some way even grognard-free - if I may say this so - as the guy above explained so wonderfull.

 

[Khairn]

We can discuss in a friendly manner or we can stop discussing. Putting words in my writing is not right.
Quote me, please, Sir, where I said that I don't like FR. Quote me where i said that I don't want to play FR.

Sunmaster, I am very sorry if I came across as being argumentative. That is certainly not what I was trying to do. I truly am trying to find why some gamers believe that 4E FR, will give them more accessibility to the setting.

I never meant to say that you had said you didn't like FR. What I was trying to say was that I can relate to anyone who says they just don't like FR. A setting is a very important and subjective part of any setting. Many players don't like FR for very personal reasons. And all those reasons are valid. I have no problem with players not liking FR because the setting doesn't seem like a good fit for you and your gaming group.

What I am trying to explain is that the limitation of information about 4E FR, that some people are saying is giving them more access to the game does nothing of the kind. You could have that same limitation of information using any version of FR. It is an illusion. It will also be very short lived as within a year of its release I expect 10-20 FR books and adventures to be published, nevermind the paperbacks. Within 2 years there will be yet another glut of FR material on the market. What then?

In your quote above, you agree with the original poster that players who have studied the FR can be difficult to handle as they have more knowledge about the setting than you do. I agree that they can be a challenge to manage. But that is entirely within the ability of the GM and players to control. Even with a new edition those same players will still have "historical" knowledge to draw from.

 

[sunmaster]

@Devyn: And you excuse me, as I was somewhat "angered" because I tried to express my thoughts but struggled because of my English skills - have to spend some skill points on them -.

But back to your arguments : Even if these "same players" are at my table with their "historical" knowledge this is now after the Spell Plague worth . They cannot bubble and bobble about how Kherunsun discoverd this and that and therefore we cannot do it because the 13 have this and that.

Don't you understand?

With the fresh new FR I am at the same level with this guy who gave up his life for all FR novels, comics, p0rn, computer software and so on. He cannot argue with me because we are at the same knowledge.
This is impossible - just right out impossible - with the actual edition. Every one who has read more novels and sourcebooks and what not will kill my gaming session or - the other way around - I am not able to make the FR setting in his mind right so that he nor me will enjoy.
But - my person as an example - because I know very less about FR - I have only the grey box - most people out there would not even enjoy one minute of gaming with me even if i can come up with glorious events and adventures just of this reason above.

With the new edition all these problems go away. Even as you said that in short time there will be several books I as a GM will have at least the same knowledge level as my players .
So in the end I can give them the right imagination of FR and even when they read novels playing on the new FR they will have not discrepancies with my presentation. With this I mean that I don't present them the FR equivalent of : "Gandalf the Green" and "Aragorn the Hobbit King" in Gondor the main city of Hobbits where Gimli the Dwarfen God is the main religion.
I will tell them things and describe places on the line of the original authors. In the actual edition
I very well would make very very much mistakes from the "facts" point of view - and tell me would this above picture for you Middle Earth? -.

I hope you understand.

 

[Kraydak]

...
Don't you understand?

With the fresh new FR I am at the same level with this guy who gave up his life for all FR novels, comics, p0rn, computer software and so on. He cannot argue with me because we are at the same knowledge.
...

So, assuming that you have a member of your gaming group who both is a rabid, canon-worshipping FR fan (quite possible!) and is interested in playing in the new FR (also quite possible, although you should check...), you still have major problems. You have only 100 years worth of history to play with, because anything older gets you into pre-spellplague eras. This means all but the youngest dragons are out (medium aged dragons are probably ok because they would be beneath major notice pre-SP). Ancient ruins? Right out. Old elves? Out. Oh, and novels are still canon, so unless you want to become a rabid FR fan yourself, you only have a few months for the campaign before issues crop up again... Better check the publishing schedule so you can avoid playing in areas with upcoming novels. Oh wait, they just slashed the available geography, so that'll be a tad hard.

 

[IconoclastX]

There wasn't one thing. Bane's return was part of it, but so was the return of Shade, the spread of Thayan Enclaves, the death of Azoun, and the conquest of Unther.

And now (in the new timeline) Unther disappeared and the Dragonborn were dimension shifted in its place... I can't even comment.

 

[IconoclastX]

So I am also in the group of the people who calls the world shattering event "welcome".

Not to pick on you, Sunmaster, but you're just the latest person I've heard express this.

This is like saying, "I've always hated the ice cream flavour of Chocolate. I'm glad they've obliterated it and now it tastes like berries, but it's still called Chocolate so I can still say I'm eating Chocolate ice cream. I like berry flavour better."

My response: go find a setting that actually works for you. Why destroy what the fans of FR actually like? It's obvious that it's a different setting, and not for some people. But it's obviously for enough people that it's survived for 20 years (as a premiere and heavily supported setting) since Ed sold it. There must have been a lot of 3.x fans based on the number of books they kept producing.

It's a mirror of what they're doing with the entirety of 4e: dumping the current fans in an effort to get all new fans. Using brand recognition to present something that is totally different and try to pass it off as the same thing. I don't like it, but hey - I don't have to follow them, right?

It just bothers me when people congratulate them for ruining something that was obviously working, and working well, for a large segment of the gaming community. I guess I'm also saddened that the people writing for the Realms have so little respect for what has gone before.

I'm glad some of you like it, I guess, to keep the name alive.

 

[IconoclastX]

Now, all that said, I know a lot of people liked FR the way it was, and I really do feel for them. I'm not saying that this change is "the best thing ever." I'm just saying that it's nice from my POV.

Because you can write a novel that has both your name and the Forgotten Realms logo on it? I don't really want to say something like "it's not the REAL Forgotten Realms", because that gets into some philosophical discussions about what is the "real" Realms. But you can see that you are writing for a totally different thing that just has the logo on it and reuses some of the names, right?