FR Update at WotC-Year of the Ageless One

[ChaosShard]

I have seen no indication that Thay did not go into a full-on civil war or that, after 100 years, it isn't still engaged in one. All we know about Thay is that it suffered significant geographical alterations and that Tam is still around. Perhaps hostilities were forestalled by the Spellplague, but now Thay is more fractured than ever. We simply don't know.

Though apparently this means there is something wrong with me (and the people I play with), I am thinking I will probably play a dragonborn as my first PC. I like monstrous races - many people do - and now we have a one that is playable out of the PHB.

Actually, about Thay, Richard Lee Byers has an excellent (IMO) trilogy in the works, beginning with Unclean.

To sum it up, Tam creates conditions whereby he and a few Tharchions (provincial governors) are actively at war with the remaining Zulkirs (2 die, the Transmuter, who's replaced by a relatvely incompetent politician/mage, and Aznar Thrul, Tam's chief rival) after a failed "legal" powergrab by the lich. My guess is that if Szass makes it to 4e, he wins the war. Honestly, I don't really do the book justice, if you're into Thay, it's a great read. This is also given a mention towards the end of the GHotR.

There's nothng "wrong" with someone wanting to play a given race and/or class, and honestly, I think the Dragonborn are pretty interesting as a race in FR. There's a lot that can be done with them RP wise, as well as (hopefully) crunch-wise.

Now, as far as the changes go, I'm still in "wait and see" mode.

I like Baldur's Gate as a city (ran a 1-to-epic game based largely from there), so seeing it get more attention is (hopefully) good. The growth of the city sounds fairly normal from a historical point of view. Being a NY'er, I can tell you that we still have ethnic neighborhoods sattered throughout the five boroughs, and not due to racism. It's simply that new arrivals tend to move to neighborhods with people of their ethnic/religious group.

The Swrod Coast not being wrecked directly contradicts Drizzt's prolgoue in The Orc King where he mentions the region being devastated. Aside from a chuckle at Drizzt, I hated the idea of losing the Sword Coast, so that's good by me.

The GH (IIRC) and Paul S. Kemp's Twilight War Series alluded to Sembia's inclusion (directly or by proxy) in Netheril, so no shock there. 4-way alliance against Netheril isn't too bad, makes for some good adventuring possibilities, but the devil (or shade!) is in the details here.

How they added the Dragonborn isn't awful, but very cliche for FR. It doesn't kill me but I don't love it either.

Surprise Mount Thay? Again, not hating or loving, just kind of meh.

 

[Cthulhudrew]

"Suddenly all gnomes across the ENTIRE REALMS die! Especially the one you're playing!" is one of the sloppiest possible ways to handle an edition change, and one of the easiest (and very understandable) ways to get your fanbase to hate it.

Then again, they did do it with assassins during the Time of Troubles...

 

[Cthulhudrew]

The Swrod Coast not being wrecked directly contradicts Drizzt's prolgoue in The Orc King where he mentions the region being devastated.

Maybe he just meant devastated emotionally, like many fans of the Realms are (and will be) when all this plays out.

 

[kennew142]

I agree - we don't know. When it comes to numbers, I'm only guessing as much as the next guy. My evidence comes from Candlekeep (certainly a very much high-purchasing group), in which the reaction is decidedly negative. Same with the WotC boards. Your source?

My source, which I've admitted is purley anecdotal, comes from talking to folks at the game days and conventions I organize. In my experience, the reaction has been mixed, with most folks taking a wait and see approach.

As you've stated on multiple occasions in multiple posts. Of course, I suspect you're in the minority. Are you? Nobody knows for sure, but that's why it's only my suspicions.

I suspect that all of us who really like the changes or really hate them are in the minority. I suspect that the majority of FR fans will wait and see and then decide. I suspect that many (possibly even most) will like the changes once they see them in play.

You're right that I post in multiple threads about people mischaracterizing those who like what we've seen about the upcoming FR changes as newbies or newcomers to the Realms. The reason I keep posting it, is because people keep saying it. Making such statements is not only weak; it is dishonest. It is also an attempt to invalidate the opinions of those who disagree with you.

 

[ChaosShard]

Maybe he just meant devastated emotionally, like many fans of the Realms are (and will be) when all this plays out.

I'm more devastated by the arguments over how devastated the Realms are than the devastation itself

 

[Bryntryst]

I suspect that all of us who really like the changes or really hate them are in the minority. I suspect that the majority of FR fans will wait and see and then decide.

Unfortunately, those that lean toward the extreme are the most vocal. I have all but abandoned the FR forums on the WotC site. I started visiting when I heard that FR was going to be the flagship of 4E (for lack of a better term). My experience with FR was comparatively limited; having played mostly DL, Dark Sun and Greyhawk. I sought to rectify that, but lately it's devolved into pretty much nothing but "I hate Keith Baker" and "FR is dead" threads.

That being said, I am optimistic of whats in store for FR. Change tends to freak everyone out, but it's not always a bad thing. Irregardless, I'm reserving official opinion until I've had a chance to digest the 4e FRCS. I just think its a shame that not everyone does likewise.

 

[The Grumpy Celt]

Honestly, 4th Ed. Realms is making me pine for Greyhawk, which I had thought impossible. Before the Realms was run off the Rails I thought Grayhawk was too vanilla. Not so any more.

 

[Hussar]

Just a thought about the whole numbers thing.

Hard core fans of the game buy game supplements. If you were to add up all the 3e FR supplements for FR, you'd get what, 30 titles? ((I really don't know, I'm ballparking here)) Compare the sales of all those books to a single title from Salvatore and you'll probably have similar numbers. Heck, make it two Salvatore Drizzt books.

That's why I don't think that the hard core FR gamer fans really matter. There just isn't enough of you. Not by a long shot. Not when PC games based on the Realms dwarf the book sales.

Decisions about the Realms are going to take into account a heck of a lot more than just the tabletop gamers.

 

[Hussar]

True. It will, however, be interesting to see what they do with Realms 5e, when they decide to drop Dragonborn because no one was using them.

And that would be more than fair. I'd be the first in line to applaud them for doing so.

Keeping elements because a small minority of gamers like them is stupid. Sure, try to fix stuff, but, after a couple of years, drop it like a bad habit and try something else.

 

[TwoSix]

Honestly, 4th Ed. Realms is making me pine for Greyhawk, which I had thought impossible. Before the Realms was run off the Rails I thought Grayhawk was too vanilla. Not so any more.

The first released campaign setting should be as vanilla as possible, in order to introduce people to the new setting elements. Making a setting that breaks all the rules doesn't mean much if people don't know the rules to begin with. FR 4e will be the vanilla, Eberron 4e will be the chocolate chip cookie dough.