Free item crafting capabilities...

[kreynolds]

...for classes that qualify. How would this be a problem? I've been thinking about this for a day or so, and I can't come up with a reason why this would be a problem (except for metagaming munchkin players, of which I have none). I figure the expenditure of XP is costly enough, and I figure that sticking with the caster level requirements of the item creation feats would be a good idea. Basically, I was thinking of just turning all the item creation feats into item one feat, but you still have to adhere to the individual feat rules, such as level prerequisites for crafting certain types of items.

What do you folks think?

 

[the Jester]

Well, I wouldn't do it in my campaign, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it in yours. In my experience, pcs that can make magic items will; and though you have a measure of control over it (it takes money, which the dm doles out) you could end up with pcs who had twice their normal amount of money in items. Not always bad, but certainly something to keep in mind.

Also, I suspect many players would have a difficult time avoiding the temptation to item create so much that they were consistently a level behind the rest of the group.

Finally, keep in mind that if you were to allow this, you'd be giving the pcs a great deal of control over what magic items they have.

 

[Sanackranib]

in my game having the feat doesn't give you the knowlegde to create every item in that catogory. you get to pick 1 that you meet the prerecs for and gain another for free every 3 levels. anything else must be reasearched per the spell research rules. so the pc's can learn new items but it costs extra time and money.

 

[Wantung]

This seems overly repressive - can they not at least create magic items they have samples of? Or for which they can find a teacher on how to create them?

 

[Sanackranib]

This seems overly repressive - can they not at least create magic items they have samples of? Or for which they can find a teacher on how to create them?

They are not limited to 1 per 3 levels but thats all they get for FREE. yes if yhey have an item they can research it at a reduced cost and if there were say 2 mages in the party they could "share notes" in specific societys they could also purchase the item creation formula. it is just another way of controlong the partys funds and stoping a flood of "cheep" magic items.

 

[Sanackranib]

This seems overly repressive - can they not at least create magic items they have samples of? Or for which they can find a teacher on how to create them?

They are not limited to 1 per 3 levels but thats all they get for FREE. yes if yhey have an item they can research it at a reduced cost and if there were say 2 mages in the party they could "share notes" in specific societys they could also purchase the item creation formula. it is just another way of controlong the partys funds and stoping a flood of "cheep" magic items.

 

[kreynolds]

Well, I wouldn't do it in my campaign, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it in yours.

Fair enough, but out of curiousity, why?

In my experience, pcs that can make magic items will;

Well, yeah, but that's the point.

and though you have a measure of control over it (it takes money, which the dm doles out) you could end up with pcs who had twice their normal amount of money in items. Not always bad, but certainly something to keep in mind.

Very true.

Also, I suspect many players would have a difficult time avoiding the temptation to item create so much that they were consistently a level behind the rest of the group.

I suppose I agree, but only on that grounds that power games would be the type that couldn't resist the tempation. Like I said, I don't have any of those.

Finally, keep in mind that if you were to allow this, you'd be giving the pcs a great deal of control over what magic items they have.

Not really. The point is that a PC who has actually purchased five item creation feats can basically create a whole slew of magic items anyway. The freedom is already there. I'm simply talking about removing the prerequisite of having to actually purchase the feat (though I'm thinking of keeping the Craft Wondrous Item feat).

I don't know...perhaps a better idea would be to lump all the item creation feats into just two or three feats?

 

[the Jester]

Fair enough, but out of curiousity, why?

I like to have magic items be unique and wondrous. I've noticed under standard 3e rules, they lose a lot of that because they're so easy to make (and, extending the item creation and demographic rules into society at large, to find on the market). I also prefer to have a certain amound of control over the party's items- though that's also undermined by the item creation rules.

I basically don't want to make it any easier to outfit your character with exactly what you want than it already is.

Not really. The point is that a PC who has actually purchased five item creation feats can basically create a whole slew of magic items anyway. The freedom is already there. I'm simply talking about removing the prerequisite of having to actually purchase the feat (though I'm thinking of keeping the Craft Wondrous Item feat).

I don't know...perhaps a better idea would be to lump all the item creation feats into just two or three feats?

Yeah, but if the pc spends five feats on their item creation abilities, they've chosen that ability over others and given up other potential capabilities; in other words, you can scribe scrolls, brew potions, and craft rods, wands and wondrous items, but I can extend, empower, enlarge and maximize spells, and my evocation DC is one higher than yours (all else equal).

I do think the item creation rules should be redone so that they make more sense; i.e. why take Forge Ring if I can craft a wondrous item that does what any ring does anyhow? They should be divided by function, not form (the item creation feats, that is)- the same feat should allow you to make a potion or a pinch of dust, pigment, or other one-shot item.

 

[Spatzimaus]

Making it entirely Featless, I don't really see, but there ARE too many Feats right now. I don't see many people take Ring/Staff/Rod very often; it's always Wondrous Items first, Arms and Armor second, and either Scroll or Potion for all those utility spells. Since Elixirs are now in the Wondrous section, there's even less need. The only people I ever see take more than two item Feats are those that get free item Feats as a class ability.

But here's the thing: not every item has a prerequisite spell. If you don't play the "caster levels are a requirement" rule (and a lot of people don't), then what's to stop a Fighter from making some of these items? Boots of Elvenkind just need to be an Elf to make. Bracers of Archery (lesser or greater) need two Feats, but if you don't require Feats then every Fighter will have these. And so on.
Okay, so now you change those items to require a spell (Silence for the Boots, True Strike for the bracers). How about a Rogue with Use Magic Device? Using wands to meet spell prerequisites, he could make any item in the book. Point is, removing Feats altogether opens a bunch of loopholes. You can patch them all individually, sure, but that's more effort than it's worth.

Personally, I like the "differentiation by price" method someone suggested a while back. That is, make a series of Feats that have price caps, so you can't just take one catch-all Feat like "Craft Wondrous" and never worry about it again. To keep things interesting, I threw in a secondary effect: later Feats let you make items faster, so someone with all five Feats can make the dinky potions faster than a newbie.

CRAFT TRINKET:
You can create any magical item with a value less than 1,000 gp.
You complete items at a rate of 1,000 gp/day.
(Wizards start with this one)

CRAFT MINOR ITEM:
Prerequisite: Craft Trinket, caster level 5
You can create any magical item with a value of up to 5,000 gp.
You complete items at a rate of 2,000 gp/day.

CRAFT MODERATE ITEM:
Prerequisite: Craft Minor Item, caster level 10
You can create any magical item with a value of up to 40,000 gp
You complete items at a rate of 3,000 gp/day.

CRAFT MAJOR ITEM:
Prerequisite: Craft Moderate Item, caster level 15
You can create any magical item with a value of up to 200,000 gp
You complete items at a rate of 4,000 gp/day.

CRAFT EPIC ITEM:
Prerequisite: Craft Major Item, caster level 20
You can create any magical item, no matter its value.
You complete items at a rate of 5,000 gp/day.
(I did caster level 20 instead of 21 on purpose. It doesn't really make much difference in the long run.)

There's also Metacreative (see the errata'd PsiHB version) and Magical Artisan (changed to -10% to base cost for all items)

 

[kreynolds]

...what's to stop a Fighter from making some of these items?

Probably this...

...I figure that sticking with the caster level requirements of the item creation feats would be a good idea.

I like those feats though.