[Full] Epic game!
- Thread starter electric-ant
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electric-ant
First Post
Hmm...actually, I've been thinking a bit.
I think I could take on the job as a DM.
Here's the thing, though:
Jemal's post really, really rubbed me the wrong way. I'm interested in an epic campaign because, in my opinion, it's the best way to keep the mood of an epic (and I mean that in the real definition, not as in your level > 20) adventure, like a real fictional narrative, almost.
While it's certainly possible to create that mood with all the limitations inherent in a low-level campaign (and in fact, I think a low-level campaign is the other best way to recreate a fantasy epic - after all, what character past 5th level fears goblins? And how many protagonists in fantasy don't stop in their tracks in fear at the mention of a hoard of goblins and orcs swarming into the village? But I'm getting off-track), it's more difficult due to those very limitations. Epic (in the D&D sense) campaigns are about removing limits and stretching possibilities for a more cinematic feel. How many novels and movies have you read/seen where a character goes "Sorry, William. I'm all out of 3rd-level slots for the day, so I guess I can't fireball those trolls afterall," and starts chucking rocks at the enemies? That's why I was interested in an epic game.
Hmmm. Longer and more rantish than I expected. Hope I haven't driven anyone away.
Well, keeping that in mind, here are some guidelines for the game:
So, after all that I'll just ask you to keep in mind that this is going to be the first time I've run a game, EVER, so I don't know if I'll be able to keep myself to the standards I set.
Feel free to run screaming, I won't be insulted if you decide you'd rather not play.
I think I could take on the job as a DM.
Here's the thing, though:
Jemal's post really, really rubbed me the wrong way. I'm interested in an epic campaign because, in my opinion, it's the best way to keep the mood of an epic (and I mean that in the real definition, not as in your level > 20) adventure, like a real fictional narrative, almost.
While it's certainly possible to create that mood with all the limitations inherent in a low-level campaign (and in fact, I think a low-level campaign is the other best way to recreate a fantasy epic - after all, what character past 5th level fears goblins? And how many protagonists in fantasy don't stop in their tracks in fear at the mention of a hoard of goblins and orcs swarming into the village? But I'm getting off-track), it's more difficult due to those very limitations. Epic (in the D&D sense) campaigns are about removing limits and stretching possibilities for a more cinematic feel. How many novels and movies have you read/seen where a character goes "Sorry, William. I'm all out of 3rd-level slots for the day, so I guess I can't fireball those trolls afterall," and starts chucking rocks at the enemies? That's why I was interested in an epic game.
Hmmm. Longer and more rantish than I expected. Hope I haven't driven anyone away.
Well, keeping that in mind, here are some guidelines for the game:- I'm going to ask a minimum of literary ability here. Now, I'm not expecting huge page-long posts - in fact, it's perfectly OK if you have just a one-liner or something to confirm an action or "Thraxus leaps through the portal behind Caram, hoping whatever waits behind is not hostile." Just keep the feel of the adventure and SPELLCHECK, and we'll all get along.
- I have some vague ideas which I expect to coagulate into a plot (any day now!), and it will probably be a mix of roleplay and good ol' roll-the-die-thwack-the-monster playing - maybe 50/50, maybe 60/40, we'll see how it turns out. When you make your characters, go ahead and optimize, but don't blatantly min/max and make choices like three archer prestige classes to get those keen arrows, improved criticals, increased range, and close combat shots while not taking the other abilities meant for flavor. Speaking of prestige classes, if you choose one, please try and limit yourself to only one, but if you have a reasonably good justification, I'll accomodate.
- Make a character of 26th level. For stats, 5d6 drop two lowest, then assign as you wish. You can include stuff from core, ELH, and splatbooks (current errata, esp. bladesinger and S&F weapons), and the Books of Eldritch Might. Forgotten Realms stuff MIGHT be OK, just let me know before you tack it on, and I'll decide whether it's kosher.
- 2.5 million gold and 20k "extra" experience points beyond whichever level you start at - experience points can be spent on epic spells and item creation, and since the pace of PbP games tend to be slow and I doubt we'll be leveling a whole lot (I may be surprised), you can also can buy epic feats at 10k per feat. Go ahead and dip under 26th level, if you wish. No limits on how much can be spent on one item, but be reasonable.
- This bullet is reserved for the thing I forgot.
So, after all that I'll just ask you to keep in mind that this is going to be the first time I've run a game, EVER, so I don't know if I'll be able to keep myself to the standards I set.
Feel free to run screaming, I won't be insulted if you decide you'd rather not play.
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electric-ant
First Post
Wow, three posts while I was typing. Y'all can decide what you want to do.
Y'all can decide what you want to do.
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Arknath
First Post
Well...I'm torn...I LOVE options (any of the players in my group would attest to that), but I'm so desperate to actually play an epic character that I'd go either way. I understand ant's point about epic being all about diversity and all...hmmmm...unless Jemal can come up with somethin better, I would have to say I'd like to try ant's game...it's just more my type...
Howling Coyote
Explorer
I'm in no matter who the GM is. Both–ants and Jemals– proposals 
sound interesting at their current states.
sound interesting at their current states.
Jemal
Adventurer
Yo Ant, if you wanna DM go ahead, I was just offering cuz nobody else had comeforward and I liked the idea.
Sorry if I rub you thre wrong way, but if you take offense to my words, that's your problem not mine.
I just like playing by core rules, ok? if u don't like limits, that's fine, but unlike most people out there that join these high level games, I don't have the resources to create a super-ultra-powergaming-character. I don't buy every book that comes out, and I'm one of those old-fashioned guys who actually believes that if you want a book, you should buy it, not pirate it from Kazoo or whatever it is.
I've found any high level character using the splat-books ends up being a super-character in their field.. Unhitable, Unkillable, can't fail a save, Kills with one shot, Always hits, minimum 20 damage per shot with 12 attacks per round, spells with DCs over 80, etc, etc.
When it's that kinda game, it's just no fun to us normal guys who're stuck thinking a +5 vorpal keen g.sword with improved crit and weapon specialization or a spell with a save dc over 30 is actually worth using.
ON a side note, one time I made what I thought was the BEST POSSIBLE mage ever.. lvl 20 Sorc, PHB/DMG only, and then my friend made a lvl 15 Sorc using splatbooks, and his lvl 15 was able to single handedly beat mine 9 times out of 10. Neither of us used prestige classes, the only differences were feats, equipment, and spells. We did the battle 10 times, to limit the 'random effect', and the only reason I won ANY of them was b/c he rolled a 1 on a save vs my finger of death.
SO that's another reason I only allow core books, but mainly it's b/c when I DM, I actually like knowing what my PCS can do.. not having 200 different books means I would need info.
Anyways, if you're not pissed at me for disagreeing with you, and you want me, I might be able to make a character that's almost half as powerful as I could put together with more books, but if you're willing to have a mere mortal among your players, I'll apply.
Other reason I'm willing to try is b/c of your 'No blatant min-maxing' thing, which means I might actually have a chance to contribute to the team with my PHB-DMG-ELH character with only 1 or two 'normal' classes, and maybe a prestige class if I find one that fits. SO, who makes the 'final cut'.
Oh, and if anyone would still like to play in an Epic game like the one I described in my last post, just say so and If I get enough interest I'll think up an idea and maybe post a recruitment thread If I can come up with something I think is worthy of your time.
Sorry if I rub you thre wrong way, but if you take offense to my words, that's your problem not mine.
I just like playing by core rules, ok? if u don't like limits, that's fine, but unlike most people out there that join these high level games, I don't have the resources to create a super-ultra-powergaming-character. I don't buy every book that comes out, and I'm one of those old-fashioned guys who actually believes that if you want a book, you should buy it, not pirate it from Kazoo or whatever it is.
I've found any high level character using the splat-books ends up being a super-character in their field.. Unhitable, Unkillable, can't fail a save, Kills with one shot, Always hits, minimum 20 damage per shot with 12 attacks per round, spells with DCs over 80, etc, etc.
When it's that kinda game, it's just no fun to us normal guys who're stuck thinking a +5 vorpal keen g.sword with improved crit and weapon specialization or a spell with a save dc over 30 is actually worth using.
ON a side note, one time I made what I thought was the BEST POSSIBLE mage ever.. lvl 20 Sorc, PHB/DMG only, and then my friend made a lvl 15 Sorc using splatbooks, and his lvl 15 was able to single handedly beat mine 9 times out of 10. Neither of us used prestige classes, the only differences were feats, equipment, and spells. We did the battle 10 times, to limit the 'random effect', and the only reason I won ANY of them was b/c he rolled a 1 on a save vs my finger of death.
SO that's another reason I only allow core books, but mainly it's b/c when I DM, I actually like knowing what my PCS can do.. not having 200 different books means I would need info.
Anyways, if you're not pissed at me for disagreeing with you, and you want me, I might be able to make a character that's almost half as powerful as I could put together with more books, but if you're willing to have a mere mortal among your players, I'll apply.
Other reason I'm willing to try is b/c of your 'No blatant min-maxing' thing, which means I might actually have a chance to contribute to the team with my PHB-DMG-ELH character with only 1 or two 'normal' classes, and maybe a prestige class if I find one that fits. SO, who makes the 'final cut'.
Oh, and if anyone would still like to play in an Epic game like the one I described in my last post, just say so and If I get enough interest I'll think up an idea and maybe post a recruitment thread If I can come up with something I think is worthy of your time.
Victim
First Post
I'm interested in either game.
Using Core Rules certainly makes character creation much simpler. Of course, there's a noticeable lack of feats designed for characters between 10th and 20th level, with just PHB feats.
Of course, beyond raw power, cool prestiges or feats from supplements can inspire unusual characters. Or make otherwise unplayable character concepts useful.
I think the key thing is to make sure every character is unequaled in his niche. The rogue probably shouldn't have better attacks and do more damage without sneak attack than the pure tank. The fighter probably shouldn't buy lots of +30 skill items, so he fights better than the rogue and has comparable skills. Save DCs need to be watched carefully, otherwise encounters end when the wizard acts. Also, characters generally need to be on the same min max level.
I think it's obvious that the DM needs to know what characters are capable of doing.
Using Core Rules certainly makes character creation much simpler. Of course, there's a noticeable lack of feats designed for characters between 10th and 20th level, with just PHB feats.
Of course, beyond raw power, cool prestiges or feats from supplements can inspire unusual characters. Or make otherwise unplayable character concepts useful.
I think the key thing is to make sure every character is unequaled in his niche. The rogue probably shouldn't have better attacks and do more damage without sneak attack than the pure tank. The fighter probably shouldn't buy lots of +30 skill items, so he fights better than the rogue and has comparable skills. Save DCs need to be watched carefully, otherwise encounters end when the wizard acts. Also, characters generally need to be on the same min max level.
I think it's obvious that the DM needs to know what characters are capable of doing.
Howling Coyote
Explorer
ant:
Do you have any alignment preferences? Do you allow templates? I was thinking about making either a human assassin or an elven mage (maybe a druid).
Let me see if I understood this correctly. 2.5 million is the standard starting wealth for 26th level characters. What does this 20k extra beyond our starting level mean then? Is it extra 20k to the starting wealth regardless of level (total of 2.52 million at 26th level), or do we get the extra wealth every time we level up?
Do you have any alignment preferences? Do you allow templates? I was thinking about making either a human assassin or an elven mage (maybe a druid).
Let me see if I understood this correctly. 2.5 million is the standard starting wealth for 26th level characters. What does this 20k extra beyond our starting level mean then? Is it extra 20k to the starting wealth regardless of level (total of 2.52 million at 26th level), or do we get the extra wealth every time we level up?
electric-ant
First Post
Oops, that's 20k extra experience points! I originally had said "345k experience points" but I changed that when I realized people might want +x ECL races.
That's intended for item creation and epic spells.
Just a note about epic spells: I encourage you to create your own. If you use the ones in the book, re-calculate the Spellcraft DCs, as they are incorrect in several cases, but I'm not aware of all of them. The order for DCs is [seeds] then [factors] then [multipliers] then [mitigating factors].
Alignment can be whatever, but I'd prefer a good/lawful 'bent' towards the party as a whole.
Jemal:
Oh, I understand completely. It's not you that rubbed me the wrong way, it's just your comment about how most people enjoy epic games because they're are all about m4d 733|3 p0w3r!!11!
Yeah, I realize how different a min/max party and an 'optimized' one will be. I decided to use splatbooks because that gives more choice with prestige classes, which I suspect will be a major factor in high-level characters.
Anyone who posts a character who posted before I edited the title to "Full" can contribute, which is, if I'm correct, everyone who's posted in this thread so far.
Also, for magic items: I'd rather you not have magic items with more than +60 in skill bonuses total. That's one of the most unbalancing possibilities for item creation, but it's also practically required for epic spells to be anything more than another 10d6 points of damage.
That's intended for item creation and epic spells.
Just a note about epic spells: I encourage you to create your own. If you use the ones in the book, re-calculate the Spellcraft DCs, as they are incorrect in several cases, but I'm not aware of all of them. The order for DCs is [seeds] then [factors] then [multipliers] then [mitigating factors].
Alignment can be whatever, but I'd prefer a good/lawful 'bent' towards the party as a whole.
Jemal:
Oh, I understand completely. It's not you that rubbed me the wrong way, it's just your comment about how most people enjoy epic games because they're are all about m4d 733|3 p0w3r!!11!
Yeah, I realize how different a min/max party and an 'optimized' one will be. I decided to use splatbooks because that gives more choice with prestige classes, which I suspect will be a major factor in high-level characters.
Anyone who posts a character who posted before I edited the title to "Full" can contribute, which is, if I'm correct, everyone who's posted in this thread so far.
Also, for magic items: I'd rather you not have magic items with more than +60 in skill bonuses total. That's one of the most unbalancing possibilities for item creation, but it's also practically required for epic spells to be anything more than another 10d6 points of damage.
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