D&D 5E Game Design and Pizza Analogies

[Gorgoroth]

Yeah, I think it's clear you're not actually reading or comprehending anything I'm writing.

If you actually wrote anything pertinent to D&D Next, maybe.

You are not a game designer, you are a random forum poster. I make games for a living. We are not on the same level, you and I. I earned my chops, whether or not you recognize that fact (and I don't care if you or anyone else here does, either).

The point is, you can wail all you want about how to make games that appeal to you, while I go to work and make games that appeal to millions of players every single day and I'm telling you that YOU HAVE NO CLUE about how to make a cohesive game that appeals to millions. You don't try to mash up a My Little Pony game into the same product as Assassin's Creed, and expect to satisfy both audiences.

There are two audiences here which are irreconcilable and cannot play at the same game table with any sort of harmony : people who want to win always (100% chance to succeed on every attack, all races are fast, you heal back to full in 5 minutes, all the classic 4e stuff that you love so much, and more nonsense stuff that you just made up that you claim now is so important to you), and people who want to play characters who can achieve heroism, through a combination of their actions, some luck of the dice, and a decent set of rules that don't make it impossible to understand what the heck is happening in the game. A sword swing killing an opponent that missed, but was also a "direct strike", is pure, unadulterated game design garbage, and I don't care if you can't recognize that fact, because you are an amateur!

And it shows! Your post count notwithstanding. If you actually made games for a living instead of posting about how to make them, then you'd know how absurd 99% of what you write is, and how unserious you really are in the grand scheme of things. I'm not, even if Mearls totally ignores me (which he isn't), I'm fully confident in what I've achieved in my life, and that's a lot more than just writing 6000 posts on some website and making empty claims about how to design games despite having shipped 0 games.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Anchovy rocky road ice cream for EVERYONE!!!!!

 

[Gorgoroth]

Anchovy rocky road ice cream for EVERYONE!!!!!

That's basically what D&D Next is going to be unless the designers acknowledge which elements belong to which playstyles, and make either a different game to cater to each one, or find some kind of lowest common denominator and put those anchovies on the side.

Fighters with big swords are the dough and the cheese topping on a game of D&D. Wotc are mixing in anchovies with their cheese mix and telling us to remove the chunks of fish from our slices after baking it all in, and calling that being "inclusive"

 

[Ichneumon]

Anchovy rocky road ice cream for EVERYONE!!!!!

Anchovy rocky road ice-cream: Doing damage on a miss since 1863.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

If you actually wrote anything pertinent to D&D Next, maybe.

You are not a game designer, you are a random forum poster. I make games for a living. We are not on the same level, you and I. I earned my chops, whether or not you recognize that fact (and I don't care if you or anyone else here does, either).

(Edit)

...If you actually made games for a living instead of posting about how to make them, then you'd know how absurd 99% of what you write is, and how unserious you really are in the grand scheme of things. I'm not, even if Mearls totally ignores me (which he isn't), I'm fully confident in what I've achieved in my life, and that's a lot more than just writing 6000 posts on some website and making empty claims about how to design games despite having shipped 0 games.

This claim again?

Unless/until you provide a CV ht actually lets us know you design games for a living, you're effectively committing the logical fallacy called the "appeal to authority", specifically, the subclass of said fallacy known as the "appeal to inappropriate authority". This undermines the strength of your assertions.

If you were in court, your "expert testimony" would be tossed because you've presented no basis for anyone to believe you are an expert.

So if you want to be taken seriously, just stop doing this or provide proof that you have said expertise.

 

[Sage Genesis]

Yeah, I think it's clear you're not actually reading or comprehending anything I'm writing.

You fool! You mentioned "damage on a miss", which is the incantation to conjure forth Prince Gorgoroth, demon-lord of unverified credentials! Now he will recite his poem of false authority and we must all dance to the unheard tune until fatigue takes us. This, he wills.

 

[Herobizkit]

[off-topic] Seems to me that going on about the same topic using the same arguments for the same reasons in a new thread instead of the old one, which was CLOSED because of the same assertions, is poor form. [/off-topic]

I like Ham and Pineapple on my pizza. I also like all-veggie pizza.

What I want to know is, if Canadians call 'Canadian bacon' ham, why don't Americans call American cheese 'cheese'?

 

[Grydan]

Canadians don't call "Canadian bacon" ham. We call it back bacon.

Nobody calls "American cheese" cheese because it'd be insulting to actual cheese (many good varieties of which are indeed produced in the US).

To contribute to the actual topic ... where the metaphor falls apart for me is that when me and my friends order pizza (which we've done on multiple occasions, including during D&D sessions), and can't all agree on what toppings to get (which is pretty much every time) ... we just order multiple pizzas and get on with our game, rather than make everyone settle for a compromise pizza.

 

[Morrus]

If you actually wrote anything pertinent to D&D Next, maybe.

You are not a game designer, you are a random forum poster. I make games for a living. We are not on the same level, you and I. I earned my chops, whether or not you recognize that fact (and I don't care if you or anyone else here does, either).

The point is, you can wail all you want about how to make games that appeal to you, while I go to work and make games that appeal to millions of players every single day and I'm telling you that YOU HAVE NO CLUE about how to make a cohesive game that appeals to millions. You don't try to mash up a My Little Pony game into the same product as Assassin's Creed, and expect to satisfy both audiences.

There are two audiences here which are irreconcilable and cannot play at the same game table with any sort of harmony : people who want to win always (100% chance to succeed on every attack, all races are fast, you heal back to full in 5 minutes, all the classic 4e stuff that you love so much, and more nonsense stuff that you just made up that you claim now is so important to you), and people who want to play characters who can achieve heroism, through a combination of their actions, some luck of the dice, and a decent set of rules that don't make it impossible to understand what the heck is happening in the game. A sword swing killing an opponent that missed, but was also a "direct strike", is pure, unadulterated game design garbage, and I don't care if you can't recognize that fact, because you are an amateur!

And it shows! Your post count notwithstanding. If you actually made games for a living instead of posting about how to make them, then you'd know how absurd 99% of what you write is, and how unserious you really are in the grand scheme of things. I'm not, even if Mearls totally ignores me (which he isn't), I'm fully confident in what I've achieved in my life, and that's a lot more than just writing 6000 posts on some website and making empty claims about how to design games despite having shipped 0 games.

Gorgoroth, getting sick of your rudeness. Please do not post in this thread again. I don't give a flying crap whether you're a six figure earning game designer or whether you're simply the internet troll you're pretending to be. If that's true, go and design a game instead of berating message board posters about their gaming preferences.

You *will* be polite when posting on this messageboard. If you do this again, you and your alt. accounts will be asked to leave. I hope that's clear.

You are not a game designer, you are a random forum poster. I make games for a living. We are not on the same level, you and I. I earned my chops, whether or not you recognize that fact (and I don't care if you or anyone else here does, either).

And here's the crux of the matter. So here's how it's going to work now:

If you post one more time claiming you're a six-figure earning game designer (or anything similar to that) without proving it, I will assume you're a troll, and you will be asked to leave. If you post again that you don't care whether anyone believes you, you will be asked to leave. If you post again to tell anybody that you are better than them, you will be asked to leave.

If you want to post that claim again, in order to not be asked to leave, you will need to provide proof of your claim in the form of documentation. That's what happens in civilized society when you repeatedly berate people with your 'qualifications' - you put up or shut up.

(Yes, I know how you're going to respond; that'll make this process quick and easy at this end, I assure you!)

 

[Minigiant]

Like pizza, New Yorkers will always say D&D Next is better there...even though it isn't.

Yo!
Whatayatalkinabout?
D&D Next is best in New York City. Because it's all about the basenot the toppings. The greasy cheesy base.