Game of Thrones Season 8 Episode 4 "The Last of the Starks"

pukunui

Adventurer
Bran really needs to *do* something already! What’s the point of him having all those magic powers if he isn’t going to use them?
 

Imaculata

Adventurer
A ballista can have a huge range, but there's no way they would be that accurate against a moving target at that distance, and that you'd be able to fire them before Dany spotting that entire fleet. Euron's fleet basically materialized out of nowhere. That's not how that works. Plus you need time to get into the right position with the ship, and aim that thing. But he basically shot the dragon before coming into view. That is plot convenience at its worst.

And its not like there aren't easy ways to write around that. I had a big surprise attack in my pirate campaign, that came from a dense fog bank. A small enemy fleet waited on the foggy side of an island, to surprise the players. But even then it took time to get into firing range. So the enemy ships used the wind direction to get the advantage on the players.

It also feels like we've reached the point in this series where everything has become very predictable. I'm still hoping they'll pull a big twist from their hat, but so far the plot has been very by the numbers.
 
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Zardnaar

Hero
A ballista can have a huge range, but there's no way they would be that accurate against a moving target at that distance, and that you'd be able to fire them before Dany spotting that entire fleet. Euron's fleet basically materialized out of nowhere. That's not how that works. Plus you need time to get into the right position with the ship, and aim that thing. But he basically shot the dragon before coming into view. That is plot convenience at its worst.

And its not like there aren't easy ways to write around that. I had a big surprise attack in my pirate campaign, that came from a dense fog bank. A small enemy fleet waited on the foggy side of an island, to surprise the players. But even then it took time to get into firing range. So the enemy ships used the wind direction to get the advantage on the players.

It also feels like we've reached the point in this series where everything has become very predictable. I'm still hoping they'll pull a big twist from their hat, but so far the plot has been very by the numbers.
Well apparently there is a twist but its terrible. Last 3 basic plot points have been leaked, I've avoided reading about it but have heard bits and pieces. The show started going down hill season 5, picked up a bit with 6 and then fell off a cliff with the pacing and stuff being a mess. THis episode loved the 1st half or 2/3rds felt like an older season, then it kind of got silly.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
I think that is kind of the point. Brans story arch is really done though.
In the show, sure. In the books(if anymore ever get written) I'm convinced it will be bigger. His abilities ruin stories. If he actually used them, Cersei would never stand a chance, because he would know where her forces are and what she is planning at all times, and then convey that info to his side. They have to make him a lump in order to create any suspense in the story.

A simple, "Hey Jaime, Bron is coming up the North Road in 2 hours and 12 minutes with a crossbow to kill you and Tyrion" would have been useful, but destroyed any suspense regarding what will Bron do. The same with the ambush at the island.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
It also feels like we've reached the point in this series where everything has become very predictable. I'm still hoping they'll pull a big twist from their hat, but so far the plot has been very by the numbers.
I'm also tired of all the main cast death fake-outs. It's basically, fake, fake, fake, fake, death of minor character, fake, fake, fake, death of another minor character. They've taking the Martin's willingness to kill major character off and are using it as a weapon against viewers.
 

Ralif Redhammer

Adventurer
“Hey Jaime, Bron is coming up the North Road in 2 hours and 12 minutes with a crossbow to…actually, I’ve no idea what he’s coming up here to do or why. I don't think he does, either.”

But seriously, my take on Bran’s powers is that with the ability to see all of time, it’s like trying to sift through sand to see something specific. Also, maybe since there’s some sort of tie to the weirwoods, it gets harder to see stuff when you go further south? Or you know, he didn't see it because it's what the writers needed to happen.


A simple, "Hey Jaime, Bron is coming up the North Road in 2 hours and 12 minutes with a crossbow to kill you and Tyrion" would have been useful, but destroyed any suspense regarding what will Bron do. The same with the ambush at the island.
 

jonesy

A Wicked Kendragon
[video=youtube;ahoHDU0T44I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahoHDU0T44I[/video]

Ouch.
 

jonesy

A Wicked Kendragon
The new scorpions are far more powerful than I initially thought. Having watched the sea scene again it looks like Tyrion's ship wasn't even being targeted. It was anchored behind the ship with Grey Worm, and it looks to be getting hit through the other ship. That's a railgun.
 

Istbor

Explorer
Yeah. Even I feel they are slipping. Those scorpions are as strong as the writer's needed them to be, and I guess they need to try to push Danny to the edge to do something for some sort of suspense and confrontational drama llama.

Ugh.
 

lowkey13

I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
So, my workplace (where I am, by a small margin, but still the nerdiest) is definitely all-in on Game of Thrones.

The kind of place where we all got together for a massive party for the premiere.

The place where the first hour or two of work on Mondays is usually filled with GoT chatter.

...and I can tell you that there was a deafening silence this Monday.

People are pissed. I mean, this is "Dexter's last few seasons" level of angry. This is co-workers saying, "All I have left is hate-watching the show" angry.

I'm not there yet, myself, I mean, it's fine. It's definitely not as good as it was (BY FAR) but, you know, whatever, but I am amazed at the level of hatred it the last episode, in particular, engendered.

I think it's because episode 3 was a letdown in general (too dark, no real payoff for any theories or meaningful deaths- sorry, Theon), and then episode 4 was just all over the place, with all of the pacing and timing and character and geography issues that began popping up last season, but compressed into one episode.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
“Hey Jaime, Bron is coming up the North Road in 2 hours and 12 minutes with a crossbow to…actually, I’ve no idea what he’s coming up here to do or why. I don't think he does, either.”

But seriously, my take on Bran’s powers is that with the ability to see all of time, it’s like trying to sift through sand to see something specific. Also, maybe since there’s some sort of tie to the weirwoods, it gets harder to see stuff when you go further south? Or you know, he didn't see it because it's what the writers needed to happen.
He didn't have any difficulty at all when looking in on his aunt giving birth to Jon and other things. Looking in on what his enemies are doing is something he would be doing.........a lot. He'd have seen both events.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
So, my workplace (where I am, by a small margin, but still the nerdiest) is definitely all-in on Game of Thrones.

The kind of place where we all got together for a massive party for the premiere.

The place where the first hour or two of work on Mondays is usually filled with GoT chatter.

...and I can tell you that there was a deafening silence this Monday.

People are pissed. I mean, this is "Dexter's last few seasons" level of angry. This is co-workers saying, "All I have left is hate-watching the show" angry.

I'm not there yet, myself, I mean, it's fine. It's definitely not as good as it was (BY FAR) but, you know, whatever, but I am amazed at the level of hatred it the last episode, in particular, engendered.

I think it's because episode 3 was a letdown in general (too dark, no real payoff for any theories or meaningful deaths- sorry, Theon), and then episode 4 was just all over the place, with all of the pacing and timing and character and geography issues that began popping up last season, but compressed into one episode.
I'm where you are I think. I'm pretty irritated at the really stupid scenes like the dragon death and night charge of the Dothraki, but I'm not hating the shows or anything. Nor am I loving them.

Most of the hate that I've seen comes from changing Daenerys' character and sliding her into the Mad Queen seat. Her basically saying that she will sacrifice 10,000 innocent people in order to get what she wants is a pretty big slide from where she was in Meereen.
 

Zardnaar

Hero
Days always had an element of mad queen the people she was killing were the bad guys so it's alright.

Main problem is the pacing though.
 

pukunui

Adventurer
Looks to me like GoT is going to go the way of the X-Files and Lost and have a crappy ending. So disappointing.
 

Imaculata

Adventurer
But seriously, my take on Bran’s powers is that with the ability to see all of time, it’s like trying to sift through sand to see something specific. Also, maybe since there’s some sort of tie to the weirwoods, it gets harder to see stuff when you go further south? Or you know, he didn't see it because it's what the writers needed to happen.
Originally in the books, Bran was able to see through the faces of the weirdwood trees. That was how he was able to see his father during the events of the first book. I don't think there is a weirwood at King's Landing, thus explaining the limits to his sight. But it has not been established well in the show. I think after episode 3 we won't see Bran do anything useful any more in the show.

The show seems to struggle with bending the plot and its characters towards the place where they want it to end, which explains why a lot of viewers seem annoyed with how some of the characters are behaving. It feels all rather forced. I wonder if this is where George RR Martin actually intends to take his story, or if this ending is show only. Heck, maybe George has no idea how he wants it to end, and gave the show runners card blanche to do whatever.

My predictions:

-A happy ending doesn't seem likely at this point. The show will probably end with the death of Jon, Dany or both.
-Dany's vision showed a destroyed throne room, and Bran's vision showed a shadow of a dragon over King's Landing. These things will probably come to pass in these last two episodes.
-Clegane Bowl has to happen, that's a given. But I'll take it a step further. I predict that we'll see the Hound perform some kind of miracle tied to the Lord of Light. Maybe he will conjure up a burning sword of his own, or maybe he'll bring someone back from the dead.
-Jamie is going to die, as is Cersei. I feel the story should end with Jamie's hands around Cersei's neck, but it is also likely they will die in each other's arms.
-I think Jamie may have a personal confrontation/fight with Euron. They've already set up their rivalry in the show.
-I wonder if there is going to be some kind of pay off regarding some of the characters that Cersei has locked up in the black cells underneath King's Landing.
-I wonder if the secret passage that Tyrion used to escape the Red Keep (after killing his father) will come into play to break into the Red Keep.
 
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jonesy

A Wicked Kendragon
Originally in the books, Bran was able to see through the faces of the weirdwood trees. That was how he was able to see his father during the events of the first book. I don't think there is a weirwood at King's Landing, thus explaining the limits to his sight. But it has not been established well in the show. I think after episode 3 we won't see Bran do anything useful any more in the show.
To continue on this line of thought:
In the books the trees were supposed to be windows that the Old Gods looked through to see what was happening in the world. That's why marriage ceremonies in the North took place beside them. Greenseers like Bran used that same method to see things. I don't remember exactly, but I think it wasn't like a exact window analogy, but more like they could see the surrounding "land" in a dreamlike way. Like, not just what was in the line of sight of the eyes in the tree. But I do remember that they said something like 'the trees have no understanding of time so through them you can see the past and the present'.

Then the Andals came and cut down the trees in the south, so the connection there was lost. No service providers for the greenseers.

Edit: since the show seems to have had this idea in the beginning that there weren't going to be any flashbacks, this whole thing present a problem in that Bran shouldn't have been able to see what happened in the past of the south? But since none of this has been said on the show, Bran's powers have really escalated beyond what they should have been, and no explanations given since Bran is a robot now I guess.

Edit: the only person on the show who actually knew what the hell he was talking about and who could have explained everything ended up dying right there on the Three Eyed Raven's doorstep. Jojen isn't even supposed to be dead yet (he had this whole prophecy about going home).
 
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My sense is that they've already laid the table for what will happen:

*Varis will betray Dany and suffer for it, probably eaten by Drogon.
*Jamie will confront, possibly kill, Cersei. Both will die. In flagrante delicto?
*Dany is becoming more villainous--they've made her less likeable for a couple seasons now, preparing us for her death. Anyhow, she isn't really "meant" to rule Westeros. She is a change agent, not a monarch in a time of peace.
*Jon will become ruler of the Seven Kingdoms. Tyrion will be his Hand.
*Sansa will become "Lady Stark," ruler of Winterfell and the North.
*The Hound will kill his brother and then sneak off and retire in a hut somewhere. Arya will visit him.
*Samwell will not die. Unfortunately (he's lost his novelty, imo).
*Arya will remain free and wild, going where she wills. There will be a spin-off series that chronicles her adventures.
*Tormund and Brienne will end up together, but she'll get sucked into a worm-hole and end up in a galaxy far, far away.
*After Dany dies, Drogon flies off back to Valyria. The season will end with him/her watching a clutch of dragon eggs hatch.
 

Joker

Villager
From what I gather the twist coming is that Mengsk from Starcraft has been supplying Cersei's forces with cloaking tech found in Banshee craft and Ghost units.
He's also upgraded their ballista bolts with kevlar coated, tungsten wire-guided arrows. Magnetically accelerated, of course.

A bit fan-servicy but I'm looking forward to the Zerg descending en masse with the Protoss in tow.
 

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