Game of Thrones: spoilers discussion.

[Steel_Wind]

I was surprised/disappointed with the changes to Cat's character. In the books, she wants Ned to go to King's Landing (at least until Bran falls). It seems small, but I think it really changes her character. In the books, she has a bit of the political schemer in her and now it seems she's just like Ned in not wanting to be a part of that at all.

This has as much to do with clarity of character, lack of interior dialogs and the relative lack of extra time available in 10 episodes more than it has to deal with D&D wanting to change that part of the tale.

They would have had to have five mins more of dialog to frame the political discussion as the book did. Too much talk and complexity at the outset of a serries where many non-readers are already confused.

I think they made the right choice given the resorces available.

If there was any scene I missed, it was the Bran v Tommen duel in the courtyard and the interplay between Jon and Arya as they watched. Problem with that scene was that it was never about Bran and Tommen -- it was about. Robb v. Joffrey. Because they aged Robb without aging up Joffrey, that scene no longer made sense.

 

[catsclaw227]

They would have had to have five mins more of dialog to frame the political discussion as the book did. Too much talk and complexity at the outset of a serries where many non-readers are already confused.

I think they made the right choice given the resorces available.

Yup.

("you must spread more experience.....")

If there was any scene I missed, it was the Bran v Tommen duel in the courtyard and the interplay between Jon and Arya as they watched. Problem with that scene was that it was never about Bran and Tommen -- it was about. Robb v. Joffrey. Because they aged Robb without aging up Joffrey, that scene no longer made sense.

...and Yup again.

 

[horacethegrey]

Ah. Sorry for popping in like this. But just wanted to give my thoughts on this here pilot.

Episode One: Winter is Coming

LIKES:

- The Prologue. I said it before when I watched the preview, the prologue is perfect. It captures the creepy atmosphere of the lands beyond the Wall and the otherworldly horror of the Others (or White Walkers as we know them). Extra points to the guy playing Ser Waymar Royce, he got the smug aristocratic air right.

- Opening Titles. Whoa. That's a great opening! Also a nice aid for audiences in knowing the places of interest in Westeros. And the score is fitting, this is ain't no lyrical fantasy like LOTR. It's a thundering orgy of intrigue and violence.

- The Stark kids. IMO all of them were perfect. Robb's a good older brother and has a commanding air about him, foreshadowing his kingly role later on. Bran's rambunctious and energetic, shame though what happens to him. Sansa as always is a spoiled tart, and Sophie Turner brought that out quite well. Arya is spunky and rebellious, just as she was in the books. And some praise ought to be given to Kit Harrington, who I thought captured Jon Snow's tortured yet dignified character perfectly.

- Ned and Robert. Sean Bean was always perfect casting, no surpise his take on Eddard Stark is good. But I'm quite surprised how Mark Addy got Robert Baratheon. The two of them have great chemistry, you really believe they're old buddies just getting reacquainted after being years apart.

- Jaime Lannister. Another surprise, as I'd never seen Nikolai Coster Waldau in anything, but I'm already a fan after his excellent turn as the Kingslayer. He's got the smug arrogance down pat, while still making him likable at the same time.

- Viserys Targaryen. Being a Doctor Who fan, I'd watched Harry Lloyd in the Human Nature two parter, so I know he would do well playing ax crazy inbred prince like Viserys. What surprised me though, was how subtly he played on Viserys' madness, unlike the book where in his first appearance Viserys was already screaming his head off at Dany. Here, he only hints at the menace and hell he would rain upon her if things don't go his way. Excellent performance by Lloyd.


DISLIKES:

- Tyrion's introduction. Don't get me wrong, I think Peter Dinklage is perfect for the role, but I really wished they'd introduced him via his conversation with Jon, like in the books, rather than frolicking with a bunch of whores. Yeah I know, Tyrion is a lech. But one of the things I liked about Martin's intro to the character was the act of compassion he'd done for Jon just moments after his first appearrance. That helped cement the character in my eyes, in that for all his villanous reputation (largely undeserved), there was a good guy underneath.

- The boobs. Yeah I know, this seems like a useless complaint, but I'm still surprised by the amount of flesh they displayed in this first episode. It's like the producers are going out of their way to proclaim "this ain't no Lord of the Rings". Really hope they tone it down a bit in the subsequent episodes.

- Joffrey. I just literally wanted reach through the screen and punch his snot nosed face in.... Oh wait. Maybe that's a good thing?

 

[LightPhoenix]

- Opening Titles. Whoa. That's a great opening! Also a nice aid for audiences in knowing the places of interest in Westeros. And the score is fitting, this is ain't no lyrical fantasy like LOTR. It's a thundering orgy of intrigue and violence.

I don't really like the intro overly much, but whoever thought of it is a genius. That thirty seconds of map explains what would have taken a whole scene and some confusing expository dialogue to explain. It's a great idea. Plus, it's relatively short, which is always nice (looking at you True Blood ).

 

[Thunderfoot]

I stated this on another thread but I'll give it a stab here. For me, I've never read the books due to lack of funds, not want to do so. However, I am a huge fan of the setting (I own the SoIaF RPG).

I have also seen quite a few of these HBO mini series now, so I'll drop my take on everyone's dislikes. As far as character development I've noticed that HBO tends to give each character a "starring episode". My comparison is having read the book "Band of Brothers" and then watching the series several times (I own it). The book is a recollection of stories by interviewing many men, the series dropped each episode as "somewhat" of a mental vignette. Not a complete analogy but, I wouldn't be surprised if they continue with this trend here. Same thing with "Diary of a Callgirl" and to some extent "The Tudors".

The boobs, get used to them and the sex, they aren't going away and will most likely get a lot more exposure. (sri, I couldn't think of any other way to put it.) It's HBO, the reason the channel was invented was to show sex and nudity on U.S. TV, why mess with a formula that has worked for them for over 30 years now?

As someone who hasn't read the books or had any interest in the setting, my wife was easily able to pick up and follow the storyline. She's a geek, yes, but has many more "normal" tastes than your average fantasy geek.


As an aside, we can't wait until the do the Wheel of Time Miniseries; the Bornhold's have to be played by the Sutherland's (Donald and Kiefer) though.

 

[Jared Rascher]

Cross posted from Paizo's boards because there isn't much of a point in rephrasing this whole she-bang:


I'm really torn on this one. I will give them credit, I'm not torn because they completely changed things left and right, is more a matter of subtle changes that I think do shift the tone of several scenes from how they occurred in the book.


My first thought is that there are a few scenes where they revealed a bit more information ahead of time than in the book, almost as if they have to let the audience know something will be important, but it makes the more subtle building of the background threads less . . . well . . . subtle.



Spoiler: Mainly regarding the Others and the deserter. In the book it was obvious that that scene was important, but it worked better to almost let people forget about them while the political intrigue ramped up. Plus, I think I would have been happier with the wight being a bit more of a surprise later on.


It could just be me, as well, but I almost felt like, in the short time he was on screen, Theon was kind of hammered home as a jerk. Maybe I didn't read the original scene in the book the way it was intended, but I felt that Theon's more negative traits were a bit more subtly introduced in the book.
I also felt like the early scene of Jaime and Cersei was a bit of an issue to me. It felt as if:



Spoiler: They intentionally added more fuel to the flames to make it look like the Lannisters had killed Jon Arryn in case everyone assuming that later in the story wasn't enough of a red herring.


Another place that a very slight change made me feel as if the whole scene had changed was the meeting between Tyrion and Jon Snow. The scene seemed to make Catelyn more, well, petty, since she didn't just not sit Jon with the family, but didn't allow him at the feast. The meeting between Tyrion and Jon, already coming off of this negativity, felt a lot more antagonistic than I read it in the book. In the book, I felt like Jon was someone that desperately wanted to prove himself, but here, he just feels like an angry young man. I felt it lost a little depth.

I am glad that there did seem to be some genuine warmth between Ned and Cat in the scene where she receives the note from her sister. I'd probably be nit picking to say that I kind of missed the almost desperate hope that Cat had of trying to conceive another child, since that ship kind of sailed when the ages of some of the characters were revised, but I actually think that scene and how it softened her was a nice balance to her more political minded thoughts later in the scene, in the book.

Cat is coming off more overall matronly here than the wife of a great house, daughter of a great house, and a mother.



Spoiler: One of the tragedies of Cat in the books is that she has each of her "other" aspects stripped from her one by one until there is just revenge left in her heart. She looses Ned (wife), her father (daughter), and the last of her children that she knows the fate of (mother). Here, she is very much motherly over all so far.


While I can't say that Tyrion's scenes are out of character, again, I think that the order in which aspects of personality are introduce are important. I think Tyrion's wit and inquisitiveness really should have been established before his more lustful nature was explored. Maybe I'm a bit cynical, and I liked the show over all, but I wonder if Tyrion had to be introduced the way he was in order to get more "adult" scenes in the opening episode.
An odd juxtaposition in the Dothraki scene: Daenerys may have been portrayed as less willing in this portrayal, but it struck me that the treatment of the dancers was less brutal than in the books. The women seemed to know that the amorous activities of the riders was part of the entertainment in the show, but in the books, I got the feeling that they were basically just savaged. Its probably a finer hair to split than some of the scenes that haven't quite worked for me.


Overall, I felt really strange after watching this. It wasn't bad at all, and it didn't change the overall story that much, but for some reason, I felt like I had read the books all wrong and come to some of the wrong conclusions when I saw some of the subtle shifts in what was introduced when.
I'll be interested to see how this progresses, but some of the changes in tone, while fairly minor at the start, might actually really skew the trajectory of some characters later on. Then again, as Werthead mentioned above, it seems like some aspects of the story "revert" to the baseline, so perhaps these odd notes are just me getting used to a different medium for the story.

 

[Fast Learner]

- The boobs. Yeah I know, this seems like a useless complaint, but I'm still surprised by the amount of flesh they displayed in this first episode. It's like the producers are going out of their way to proclaim "this ain't no Lord of the Rings". Really hope they tone it down a bit in the subsequent episodes.

It's extremely likely that they'll tone it down a ton. Nearly every HBO series I've watched with nudity had the highest percentage of it in the first couple of episodes, especially the first one, after which it quickly ramped down. It was quite gratuitous here, in my opinion -- strange as it seems, reading that Tyrion is in a brothel didn't bring up images of naked women, while it seemed like the focus here.

 

[Kzach]

I'd just like to put my vote forward for more Emilia Clarke boobies, not less.

 

[Truth Seeker]

Well, I was quite impressed, many attempts to bring Fantasy to the Tube has always met with some distraction to a degree.

Good or ills, I was greatly impress with the overall presentation (and no, I never read the books, none.). Therefore I go with previous build info on the world and the personas.

I was entertained by the ranges on where some characters can go, the ones who have potential, and the ones who seem weak, but given time...they can probably grown into more meaningful.

As I was warned by a friend who has read the books, his warning is now heeded well.

Don't get attach to any of the personas...I did not listen, and watch a young lad's life came to an end.

I hope that Bastard gets his...GOOD!!!

 

[jonesy]

I hope that Bastard gets his...GOOD!!!

Give it time, and you might change your mind.