Game session abruptly canceled

[Kae'Yoss]

This was a jerk reaction considering the situation. If you can't understand that people have family situations, then you should not game with people who have families.

I'll repeat it slowly, so you can write this down:

This is not about "family situations"

He's not complaining that because of the kids, the game had to be cancelled.

He's not saying that parents are not entitled to some leeway.

The problem is parents that thing because they have children, the whole world has to change to fit their mood.

The problem is not that the game was cancelled.

The problem is that when he suggested to bring the kids along if their people can't take care of them, they seemingly agreed. They didn't say anything about them being unconfortable about it.

The problem is that when they learned that their people can't take care of the kids, they did not only not go along with his suggestion, even though they had seemed willing to, but also not calling him as they learned of this.

The problem is that they didn't bother to call at all. If he handn't called that day to finalise some things, they might not have told him at all, and it's not that improbable that he would only have found out that the game is off after he sat there for like an hour, all the while worrying about them and their kids, and only after calling them to ask whether everything is alright, learning about the cancellation.


And again:
Having to cancel at the last minute because something happened = No problem
Having to cancel at the last minute because the children have priority = No problem
Knowing well in advance that the game had to be cancelled and not bothering to tell everyone else = Big problem. Extremely rude (and, in our gaming group, grounds for immediate dismissal unless the guy honestly forgot it, is honestly sorry about it, and apologises appropriately). The message is clear: "We don't value you or your time enough even for a short call."

 

[Vocenoctum]

In most instances you just cited you exagerated the position of the person you were quoting. I again say that I think you calling other people hyperbolic is a case of the pot and kettle. I think you might want to dial back the rhetoric a bit. It's getting in the way of whatever point you're trying to make.

How so? People have said that kids mean having to cancel at any time with no warning, so deal with it. Others are saying that there is a social obligation, and even with kids you should keep mindful of others and not cancel without some notice too often.

I said it was hyperbole to say that one side found that there was no excuse, because folks didn't say that. There are exceptions and such for canceling, none of us said "that's that", do you disagree with me? Or do you still think that when folks say that they mean "screw your kids, you made an appointment and have to keep it" when they say something different?

Are you saying that the other folks aren't saying it's perfectly okay to cancel at the last minute due to kids without folks getting tired of it? Otherwise, I'm not really sure what your position actually IS.

My point is simply that you should have a reason for canceling at the last minute, rather than "eh, I don't feel like packing the kids up, lets just not go". Don't make appointments you can't keep, or at least advise the other end that plans are still fluctuating and let them make up their mind of whether they want to set time aside for it.

 

[Vocenoctum]

And again:
Having to cancel at the last minute because something happened = No problem
Having to cancel at the last minute because the children have priority = No problem
Knowing well in advance that the game had to be cancelled and not bothering to tell everyone else = Big problem. Extremely rude (and, in our gaming group, grounds for immediate dismissal unless the guy honestly forgot it, is honestly sorry about it, and apologises appropriately). The message is clear: "We don't value you or your time enough even for a short call."

I think a big part of it also was also that he had repeatedly driven a while to get to their house to play, but when he needed the game to be at his house, they dismissed it as too much trouble. All of it seems to come down to the game revolving around their comfort level & schedule, compared to his. I think the problem really is simply that they need a bigger group so the game can go on regardless of one or two players missing.

 

[boerngrim]

I don't want to whip a dead horse, but...

OK. One thing that kind of surprised me on this thread were the people who assumed that I have no clue what a pain it is to deal with 2 little kids and try to go anywhere. True I am not a parent, but the reason I was driving an hour to M & K's to play D&D twice a month is because I realized it was the easier option and the easiest way to include both M & K in the game. I believed then and still believe that twenty or more trips to their house on my part does make it more than reasonable for me to ask to move the game to my house one time ,even with the added inconvenience of packing up the kids. I would do it for them.

I do know very well that kid issues like one or more kids sick, bratty, scared, or what have you trump any social engagement. I don't have kids, but I do socialize with plenty of people who do, and also I'm not a complete fool. (note I said not a complete fool....) On the date in question it was not presented to me that there were any such issues. I was operating under the belief that there would be a game with or without the kids, because that is what I was told.

That being said, I do feel I handled it poorly, but I couldn't see a polite, kind, or subtle way to handle it. Sometimes you just have to say, "Hey this makes me mad!" I had to speak up. I can't accept that the correct course of action would have been to remain silent.
The situation didn't really get heated until I was told that my feelings did not matter. Have any of you ever been told by someone that you're close to that your feelings don't matter? That tends to trigger an emotional response.

As many posters have guessed this wasn't just about this one day. This was about a feeling that had been building up in me that I was being taken for granted. Is that right or wrong? I don't know. I just know it was how I felt. This particular day just happened to be the one that lit the fuse. Is all of that resolved? Not yet. Will it be? I don't know. Will we play D&D again? I don't know.

Honestly If you are a gamer you know it really isn't about not getting to play a game. Its about missing out on their company and the fellowship that takes place while we happen to be playing D&D.

Thanks.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

That being said, I do feel I handled it poorly, but I couldn't see a polite, kind, or subtle way to handle it. Sometimes you just have to say, "Hey this makes me mad!" I had to speak up. I can't accept that the correct course of action would have been to remain silent.

Sometimes all there is to choose is a variety of evils, with no good choice.

Personally, I think it's better to let it out than to keep it in. That way, the anger can dissolve. Otherwise, it would build up and simmer, and sooner or later it would erupt, and things can get pretty ugly when that happens.


And yes, I do think that driving there time and again (which isn't exactly cheap, it uses your gas and your time), will entitle you to some slack if you have to change plans every once in a while. After all, it's a big favour to agree to go there every time.

Honestly If you are a gamer you know it really isn't about not getting to play a game. Its about missing out on their company and the fellowship that takes place while we happen to be playing D&D.

Yep. One of the things that make P&P or TT gaming so awesome: You're not just having a great time playing a game, you're having a great time sitting around a table with some great people, all at the same time.

 

[DonTadow]

I think it's pretty jerky...jerkish...for the people with family situations to not communicate those situations effectively, if at all.

Cancelling because of issues, family or otherwise, is not a problem. NOT cancelling or raising any flags or warnings and the organizer being forced to call to see 'where are you?" ...that's the problem...that's the rude behavior...disrespect. Disrespect of others, and others' time. Everyone seems to have missed that point.

EDIT: kids/family are not a get out of jail free card, but your phone is.

True, but with babysitting, you sometimes do not know if you have a babysitter until hours before you leave. This person did a good job of communicating with the person that it was not a sure thing and that they needed to find a babysitter.

 

[Stalker0]

The problem is that they didn't bother to call at all. If he hadn't called that day to finalize some things, they might not have told him at all, and it's not that improbable that he would only have found out that the game is off after he sat there for like an hour, all the while worrying about them and their kids, and only after calling them to ask whether everything is alright, learning about the cancellation.

I completely agree with this point. I don't care who you are, not calling me ahead of time to cancel is rude. Of course kids get in the way, but let me know ahead of time!!

Dnd is game, but its a team game in many ways. Its the equivalent of going out with the guys for a 2 on 2 basketball game and 1 guy doesn't show up. That's not just an inconvenience, that's the end of your activity for the day. Some games get along fine missing one person, sometimes a character is critical to an adventure and the adventure has to be radically change to ignore that person.

Calling ahead is just good manners. So I agree the OP had a right to be upset, especially considering he has obviously sacrificed time and time again because his friends have kids. All he's asking for is a little advanced notice, and for a friend especially, that should never be too much to ask.

 

[Mistwell]

How so? People have said that kids mean having to cancel at any time with no warning, so deal with it.

No, they have not.

Others are saying that there is a social obligation, and even with kids you should keep mindful of others and not cancel without some notice too often.

"Too often"? Most who have made that kind of statement didn't include the exception of "too often". Not all, but I think the majority of folks who made that kind of statement said it should be "never".

I said it was hyperbole to say that one side found that there was no excuse, because folks didn't say that.

That is not what you said.

There are exceptions and such for canceling, none of us said "that's that", do you disagree with me? Or do you still think that when folks say that they mean "screw your kids, you made an appointment and have to keep it" when they say something different?

I think people were talking about the general sentiment and you're trying to turn it into something else for effect.

Are you saying that the other folks aren't saying it's perfectly okay to cancel at the last minute due to kids without folks getting tired of it?

Yes, I am saying that nobody said it was perfectly okay to cancel at the last minute due to kids. Lots of people said it happens, and people should try and be understanding of it. But nobody was saying, or implying from what I read, that it was to be always viewed as "perfect okay".

Otherwise, I'm not really sure what your position actually IS.

Oh, I think you know, you just are playing a bit of a game where you exagerate what people say, and then give the blank stare when people call you on it.

My point is simply that you should have a reason for canceling at the last minute, rather than "eh, I don't feel like packing the kids up, lets just not go".

That is in fact a reason. It's a reason that you do not like, but that doesn't make it less of a reason.

Don't make appointments you can't keep,

See, that is in fact the statement a bunch of us are calling you on. That is a hasty generalization. This was not an appointment made that could not have been kept at the time the appointment was made. You are exagerating to make it seem like that was the case. In addition, sometimes people cannot make it to an appointment, and sometimes you should cut them some slack for it and not be so overly demanding of your friendships that you put a game in front of life priorities that come up that can get in the way of that game.

or at least advise the other end that plans are still fluctuating and let them make up their mind of whether they want to set time aside for it.

You are hereby on notice that, if parents have very young kids, and you make plans with both parents, the plans are ALWAYS still fluctuating and the ball is in your court to decide if you want to deal with that or not. That should be self-evident, but apparently it's not. So now you know, and you can't use it as an excuse in the future that you didn't know that 1-year-olds are chaotic neutral and have an 18 charisma and have a special ability to make parents cancel plans at the last minute.

 

[Mistwell]

I completely agree with this point. I don't care who you are, not calling me ahead of time to cancel is rude. Of course kids get in the way, but let me know ahead of time!!

Okay enough of this accusation. You guys do NOT have the facts to draw that conclusion. You have no idea how close to the phone call the cancellation took place. You have no idea if there was a plan for one person to call the other at a scheduled time. You have no idea if the person in question was going to call very soon and was just beat to the punch. You simply do not know that there was no plan to call ahead of time to cancel!

Stop making assumptions like that guys!

 

[Vocenoctum]

No, they have not.

They have, repeatedly, but I guess you read things differently than I.

"Too often"? Most who have made that kind of statement didn't include the exception of "too often". Not all, but I think the majority of folks who made that kind of statement said it should be "never".

Nope, hasn't been said. One said "three times and you're out", perhaps that's how you draw the conclusion "never". I can't tell.

I think people were talking about the general sentiment and you're trying to turn it into something else for effect.

I only know what they're typing here. I'm not trying to turn anything into something else.

Yes, I am saying that nobody said it was perfectly okay to cancel at the last minute due to kids. Lots of people said it happens, and people should try and be understanding of it. But nobody was saying, or implying from what I read, that it was to be always viewed as "perfect okay".

It happens and people should be understanding of it, but it's not okay?

Oh, I think you know, you just are playing a bit of a game where you exagerate what people say, and then give the blank stare when people call you on it.

Not quite, but then I try to keep the focus on what is said rather than going after personal attacks and innuendo, but such is life. There is no blank stare, you just interprete stuff differently than I see it.

That is in fact a reason. It's a reason that you do not like, but that doesn't make it less of a reason.

I suppose "I didn't feel like it" is a reason someone could give, but that applies to everybody, kids or no. It is still not something I would see as a valid excuse if someone used it at the last minute. If they didn't want to pack stuff up and move with the kids, then they should have said so when he asked them to.

See, that is in fact the statement a bunch of us are calling you on. That is a hasty generalization. This was not an appointment made that could not have been kept at the time the appointment was made. You are exagerating to make it seem like that was the case. In addition, sometimes people cannot make it to an appointment, and sometimes you should cut them some slack for it and not be so overly demanding of your friendships that you put a game in front of life priorities that come up that can get in the way of that game.

I'm just going by the OP's assertion that it was fine when he asked ahead of time, but changed suddenly the day of the game.

You are hereby on notice that, if parents have very young kids, and you make plans with both parents, the plans are ALWAYS still fluctuating and the ball is in your court to decide if you want to deal with that or not. That should be self-evident, but apparently it's not. So now you know, and you can't use it as an excuse in the future that you didn't know that 1-year-olds are chaotic neutral and have an 18 charisma and have a special ability to make parents cancel plans at the last minute.

This is no different than if any other player said "hey, I'd like to game but I don't know when I might show up, so keep in mind and don't base anything on me being there". Kids are not a blanket excuse for such behavior that somehow makes it not an issue. If it's an issue with the group they need to address it, rather than just gloss it over.