Game up at Decipher?

johnsemlak said:
What about this 'Prime Directive' RPG being advertised at EN World? Who is doing that, and is it an Exclusive license?


It is based on the Starfleet Battles universe, which is actually different than the actual Star Trek universe. Based on primarily the first show and the tactical space battle game made in between series, the storyline of it differed greatly from later Trek shows.
 

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MerricB said:
MageKnight was great because it was the first CMG. Unlike Magic, however, it couldn't sustain itself. It really carved out its own niche with its selection of miniatures - but that left it vulnerable to DDM, because role-players wouldn't find much useful in MageKnight.
Personally, I found the MK minis to be as useful, if not more, for D&D than the D&D Minis line.

When MK first came out, I bought up a fair supply of MK minis, since they were cheaper than metal minis and the DDM line hadn't been created yet. It would probably make MK collectors wince, but I popped the MK minis off their bases (most came off very easily) and glued them to a normal 1-inch base. On the secondary market, bulk MK minis are dirt cheap, I bought 200 of them on eBay for $40, and most of those were pretty usable for D&D (a few steampunk creations aside), but it was a great deal for just having lots of humans/elves/orcs/generic monsters/undead. By the time the D&D minis line came out, I had most of the minis I'd need to run a game, and the D&D minis were more expensive, and much more expensive in the secondary markets.

I think that part of MK's problem with fading was that they started adding a lot to the system. Part of MK's appeal early on was that it was a fairly simple game, with one list of powers and all you'd need to know would be on the mini. Then came spells, and artifacts, and the dungeons rules, and this and that, and it started being more like a collectable minis based RPG, and away from it's simple and quick to play roots.

MK also lost a lot of steam when its fad faded. I noticed something very interesting in the demographics I saw at MK tournaments at my FLGS when it first came out and was very big. About half the players were young kids who were into the "next big thing" after Pokemon had passed it's prime and MK was jockeying for some of that market. This meant you had a lot of kids buying with reckless abandon with their allowances. The rest of the people I saw at the tournaments were about evenly divided among gamers who were interested in the whole "collectable minis game" idea and were dabbling in it (and maybe picking up a few boxes for D&D), or among middle-aged gruff-looking wargamers who played the game and griped incessantly that the minis were plastic and prepainted and the rules were too simple (and plenty of offhand comments about how 40K is superior, all real minis are metal, yadda yadda. . .) Over time, it looks like the wargamers went back to GW, the gamers who were dabbling or buying for RPG"s went to D&D minis, and most of the kids moved on to Yu-Gi-Oh cards pretty quickly.

WizKids created the entire genre of CMG, and carved out a niche where none was before, but it doesn't look like they were exceptionally good at holding their position.
 

mcrow said:
Wizkids is heading the same way, they just ended the Mageknight line and are very close to doing the same to the Mechwarrior line.

And this is how rumors get started. The Mage Knight CMG ends with the next release. Mechwarrior, OTOH, isn't ending any time in the foreseeable future. Indeed, Mechwarrior sales have been rising since the Age of Destruction set.

As for Mage Knight, it should be noted that WizKids intends to release another Mage Knight miniatures game about 2 years from now. The current plan is for it to not be compatible with the previoius game. Not much more is known about it, because they really haven't reached that level of planning with it.
 
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wingsandsword said:
WizKids created the entire genre of CMG, and carved out a niche where none was before, but it doesn't look like they were exceptionally good at holding their position.

Oddly enough, I think this was one of the early causes of MK's demise. Players who were attracted to the CMG genre and the clix format (everything you need to reference on the figure) had one game to play - Mage Knight.

WizKids then put out Mechwarrior. I've seen numerous people post that they could only afford one game and preferred sci-fi miniatures games. They liked both games, but dropped MK because to play Mechwarrior. Before that, the same thing happened with Heroclix (although I think there was less crossover between Mage Knight & Heroclix).
 

ColonelHardisson said:
Decipher's LotR RPG was one I really liked. The books for it were top-notch in quality, and showed an obvious love for the subject on the part of the designers. I'd looked forward to seeing a few more books for it.

Ever since the arrival of OGL/D20 I was happy as a clam because I thought finally someone is going to do a D&D version of LOTR. In comes damn Decipher and ruins Everything! With their broken game full of loopholes and errata coming out of its ears! (and yes I bought all the books because I collect any LOTR RPG product, good or bad) The only part they got right was the magic system, much better then Merp. CODA might work for Star Trek(???) but we tried to play this game and it just felt like it wasn't finished. I think it had something to do with Steve Long leaving when he did. When he left(for Hero System), Decipher had no more guns in their bullets, no more designer mojo. Who's in charge now with any clout or experience? A good RPG needs a driving force or personality behind the scenes to make it go.

I've had to wait for ICE's demise to see my favorite "fantasy" world go from bad to worse. Now, Decipher is hanging on by its toenails and will probably cling on for dear life and create more LOTR RPG crap. Plus they only have the license for the movies and although I love the movies, it leaves a lot of cool stuff out. If Decipher would have gone OGL or D20 they wouldn't be in the financial mess they are in now. Who the hell knows CODA? Who? Why use a derivative of the D20 system, which is what CODA is anyways but with a 2d6 roll, which know one has heard about? Going OGL/D20 would have meant compatability and more money. The arrogance was in thinking that CODA would make them more money than OGL/D20 or could be more popular. Whatever, I'm done with Decipher and will never buy another product from them. After what they did to LOTR RPG, I'm done. LOTR deserves better, oh well I have to many RPG's to play at the moment anyways, a silver lining?

regards,

Alex
 

Blustar said:
Ever since the arrival of OGL/D20 I was happy as a clam because I thought finally someone is going to do a D&D version of LOTR. In comes damn Decipher and ruins Everything! With their broken game full of loopholes and errata coming out of its ears! (and yes I bought all the books because I collect any LOTR RPG product, good or bad) The only part they got right was the magic system, much better then Merp. CODA might work for Star Trek(???) but we tried to play this game and it just felt like it wasn't finished. I think it had something to do with Steve Long leaving when he did. When he left(for Hero System), Decipher had no more guns in their bullets, no more designer mojo. Who's in charge now with any clout or experience? A good RPG needs a driving force or personality behind the scenes to make it go.

I've had to wait for ICE's demise to see my favorite "fantasy" world go from bad to worse. Now, Decipher is hanging on by its toenails and will probably cling on for dear life and create more LOTR RPG crap. Plus they only have the license for the movies and although I love the movies, it leaves a lot of cool stuff out. If Decipher would have gone OGL or D20 they wouldn't be in the financial mess they are in now. Who the hell knows CODA? Who? Why use a derivative of the D20 system, which is what CODA is anyways but with a 2d6 roll, which know one has heard about? Going OGL/D20 would have meant compatability and more money. The arrogance was in thinking that CODA would make them more money than OGL/D20 or could be more popular. Whatever, I'm done with Decipher and will never buy another product from them. After what they did to LOTR RPG, I'm done. LOTR deserves better, oh well I have to many RPG's to play at the moment anyways, a silver lining?

regards,

Alex
I'm really just guessing as I don't know much about Decipher, but I think you're far overestimating the importance of RPG sales (or lack of sales) in determining the success of Decipher overall. I'm sure they're main earner was CCGs (or TCGs, or whatever).

I really have no idea if the LOTR RPG actually sold well or not (does anyone here?). But I'd be willing to guess that the LOTR name may have been enough to trump the d20/non-d20 issue. Plus, I think making it an independent RPG, not requiring any other books, was probably a good move for a product that had potential of bringing in people who had never played RPGs before. They coudl have tried the OGL route, but remember that when the LOTR RPG came out there were very few (any?) games using that model.
 

johnsemlak said:
I'm really just guessing as I don't know much about Decipher, but I think you're far overestimating the importance of RPG sales (or lack of sales) in determining the success of Decipher overall. I'm sure they're main earner was CCGs (or TCGs, or whatever).

I really have no idea if the LOTR RPG actually sold well or not (does anyone here?). But I'd be willing to guess that the LOTR name may have been enough to trump the d20/non-d20 issue. Plus, I think making it an independent RPG, not requiring any other books, was probably a good move for a product that had potential of bringing in people who had never played RPGs before. They coudl have tried the OGL route, but remember that when the LOTR RPG came out there were very few (any?) games using that model.

I guess you're right in that their CCG's probably make or break their company but the sales from an LOTR RPG OGL/D20 game would have helped them financially and I think drastically. Why does LOTR have to cater to beginners when it's the "oldest" fantasy campaign setting in a way?
Most RPG fans who would want LOTR RPG would be old schoolers. All the whiners who complained about AD&D not being Tolkien enough. Even to the point where they would subjugate themselves to Rolemasters bastard step-child! Decipher just doesn't give a crap about their RPG's. I guess CODA isn't really that bad if they fixed the loopholes and cleaned up the errata. But DECIPHER doesn't give a rat's ass about it's RPG's. Go ask the Star Trek RPG fans.
I think that LOTR RPG should cater to the most sophisticated RPG fans not beginners. WTF! LOTR's is all about reading till your eyes bleed and then reading it again and again. It has the most obsessive fans of mostly any franchise. Yeah, lets go with newbie design for the fanaticals out there. If you're an LOTR fan, more than likely you have played or are interested in RPG's of some sort. (PnP, Video game, etc...) It's just the wrong direction for an RPG related to LOTR's. It should brim with sophistication and attention to detail, not game-breaking errata and an uncaring Front Office.
Unless reviews and word of mouth indicate a drastic change in competency and support I'm done with the dearth of Middle-Earth!

regards,

Alex
 

Blustar said:
CODA might work for Star Trek(???) but we tried to play this game and it just felt like it wasn't finished.

I ran a campaign of this game, and found it to be very playable. It really captured the feel of the setting. It felt rules-light to myself and the players, but not unfinished. I guess it depends on one's preference when it comes to rules complexity, or lack thereof.

I wrote an extensive review of the game after it came out, which I can't find. I did find it curious that the game was so similar to d20 - as I said then, it seemed like d20 using 2d6. My players also indicated that it seemed like a rules-light d20 game, or at least was so similar that they - all d20 fans and resistant to changing systems - were comfortable with it. Anyway, I also liked the magic system, and I also think it, as well as many other aspects of the game (Edges, races) would port well into d20.
 

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