D&D (2024) GenCon 2023 - D&D Rules Revision panel

[doctorbadwolf]

“Expanding on optional rules into full systems” is not even close to what was promised as “modular design.” They literally claimed modular design would make it possible to have characters that played like different editions at the same table.

Okay. Not interested in a whole thing about it. We disagree.

 

[Maxperson]

But why didn't the other WotC editions blow up? Big Bang had 4e books on their show. The popular metal band Mastodon had a video with PF/3.5. I do feel these shows shined light on D&D but I don't really get why so many discredit 5e so much in relation to the sales numbers. If it wasn't a good game I don't think it would have had as much success despite the shows.

Timing. I stated many reasons why the timing for 5e was perfect. Those things I listed were not present for 3e and 4e.


And I'm not discrediting 5e. I'm saying correlation does not equal causation.

 

[Azzy]

Timing. I stated many reasons why the timing for 5e was perfect. Those things I listed were not present for 3e and 4e.

Big Bang Theory was. So was Eureka.

 

[Maxperson]

Big Bang Theory was. So was Eureka.

Not the same, though. The initial D&D episodes of Big Bang were novelties. It wasn't until more came out with all of the rest(including critical role) that it mixed together to propel D&D into the main stream.

 

[codo]

Not the same, though. The initial D&D episodes of Big Bang were novelties. It wasn't until more came out with all of the rest(including critical role) that it mixed together to propel D&D into the main stream.

So when 5e is successful it is just because of d&d's presence in popular culture, but when d&d is shown if popular culture before 5e comes out, they don't count, because they were just "novelties". Sure, or just maybe 5e is actually popular, and what the majority of people are actually looking for in a RPG.

 

[Maxperson]

So when 5e is successful it is just because of d&d's presence in popular culture, but when d&d is shown if popular culture before 5e comes out, they don't count, because they were just "novelties". Sure, or just maybe 5e is actually popular, and what the majority of people are actually looking for in a RPG.

Dude. D&D had a movie and a cartoon decades ago. You're trying to compare apples and oranges out of a desire to have correlation equal causation and it just won't, no matter how much you want it to. The magic mix happened after 5e came out, and we don't know if 5e is the best edition for that time or not. Only that it has flourished phenomenally due to it.

 

[tetrasodium]

Not the same, though. The initial D&D episodes of Big Bang were novelties. It wasn't until more came out with all of the rest(including critical role) that it mixed together to propel D&D into the main stream.

There was the community episode too.

edit: It got a lot of eyeballs looking at the drow "hatecrime" thing sure... I think it also hit a lot of folks in the feels one way or another with the jeff/"fat neil" interplay that kicked off the whole reason they started playing to begin with.

 

[Alby87]

Stranger Things is a more bigger hit than Community or Big Bang Theory. AND, in Strager Things, D&D is not a cameo, it's important to the plot: the first series alone has the monster named over an important name. And D&D, as played by the kids, was something that let the curiosity spark (the Eddie mastered game was too late to be included in this discussion, but you know that scene was cool)

 

[Emberashh]

Prior to 2015 I doubt you could pull the average person off the street and get them to accurately describe what DND looks like to play. Not so much anymore.

Accessibility isn't just rulesets. Its being able to see how the game is played☆, which wasn't out there in easily accessible abundance until 2015, and it still isn't for the bulk of games that aren't DND. Unless you've been made aware of them and explicitly seek them out, you're not going to be exposed to anything else.

Frankly in my experience unless you've got a voracious reader, most people aren't going to learn any tabletop game by reading a rulebook. They'll learn by watching others play and/or being guided as they play for the first time. Hell, DND was the first tabletop game I ever learned differently than that, and I still really needed to watch and be guided in my first bout with it.

☆and incidentally, this is why one of the biggest problems any game can inflict upon itself is not being clear about procedures and emphasizing their use.

 

[MockingBird]

Prior to 2015 I doubt you could pull the average person off the street and get them to accurately describe what DND looks like to play. Not so much anymore.

Accessibility isn't just rulesets. Its being able to see how the game is played☆, which wasn't out there in easily accessible abundance until 2015, and it still isn't for the bulk of games that aren't DND. Unless you've been made aware of them and explicitly seek them out, you're not going to be exposed to anything else.

Frankly in my experience unless you've got a voracious reader, most people aren't going to learn any tabletop game by reading a rulebook. They'll learn by watching others play and/or being guided as they play for the first time. Hell, DND was the first tabletop game I ever learned differently than that, and I still really needed to watch and be guided in my first bout with it.

☆and incidentally, this is why one of the biggest problems any game can inflict upon itself is not being clear about procedures and emphasizing their use.

Yeah I guess it takes someone really really wanting to learn it to get them to read through a rule book. That's how I learned 2e but it would have been nice to have YouTube back then.