Gestalt headache.

[gamecat]

I'm constructing a multiclass gestalt character, and I'm having difficulty calculating her BAB and Saving throws.

She has:
5 levels of wizard (+2 BAB, +1 fort & ref, +4 will)
7 levels of warmage (+3 BAB, +2 fort & ref, +5 will)
5 levels of ultimate magus (cheap in gestalt, yeah I know, +2 BAB, +1 fort & ref, +4 will)
3 levels of swordsage (+2 BAB, +3 ref & will)

Classes were progressed in the following order:
1. Wiz1/War1
2. Wiz2/War2
3. Wiz3/War3
4. Wiz4/War4
5. Wiz5/War5
6. Ult1/War6
7. Swd1/Ult2
8. Swd2/Ult3
9. Ult4/War7
10. Swd3/Ult5

 

[EyeontheMountain]

You need to do it level by level, and I suggest using fractional saves and BAB. Figuring it out the way you are trying to do it is impossible.

BTW, drop the ultimate magus, any double prestige calss goes beyond cheesy and ends up in illegal territory.

 

[XCorvis]

Don't add up the individual bonuses, add up the progressions:

1. Wiz1/War1: Fair BAB, Good Will
2. Wiz2/War2: Fair BAB, Good Will
3. Wiz3/War3: Fair BAB, Good Will
4. Wiz4/War4: Fair BAB, Good Will
5. Wiz5/War5: Fair BAB, Good Will
6. Ult1/War6: Fair BAB, Good Will
7. Swd1/Ult2: Fair BAB, Good Ref and Will
8. Swd2/Ult3: Fair BAB, Good Ref and Will
9. Ult4/War7: Fair BAB, Good Will
10. Swd3/Ult5: Fair BAB, Good Ref and Will

10 levels of Fair BAB and Good Will, Poor Fort. 7 levels of Poor Ref, 3 levels of Good Ref.
BAB: +7, Fort +3, Ref +5 (+3 for 3 levels of Good, +2 for 7 levels of Poor), Will +7.

Alternatively, use the Fractional progressions. This article explains the basics: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sg/20060303a

 

[Goddess FallenAngel]

Just do it level by level. Just take the better of the bonuses for each.

For example: (I don't have my books to check yours, so I am making one up)
1. Wizard1 / Rogue1
Wizard = +0 BAB, Fort +0, Ref +0, Will +2
Rogue = +0 BAB, Fort +0, Ref +2, Will +0
So for first level, you have a +0 BAB, Fort +0, Ref +2, Will +2.

For each level thereafter, you just continue taking the better of the bonuses for each. If, for example, you get +1 Ref from one class and +2 Ref from another for that level, take the +2 (not +3). If you get a +1 BAB from both classes for that level, you get a +1 (not +2).

It is the way we have always done gestalt, and is a heck of a lot easier than any other method. I believe it is also the way it is described in the book. The Fractional I believe were an optional rule. However, I don't have my books with me at the moment, so I cannot look it up.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I'm constructing a multiclass gestalt character

Is there any other kind?

 

[Sejs]

Seriously, ditch the Ultimate Magus levels.


Why do people keep insisting on picking up levels in dual progression PrCs when the gestalt rules expressly say don't do it?

 

[szilard]

Seriously, ditch the Ultimate Magus levels.


Why do people keep insisting on picking up levels in dual progression PrCs when the gestalt rules expressly say don't do it?

Probably because their DMs let them.

-Stuart

 

[gamecat]

Seriously, ditch the Ultimate Magus levels.


Why do people keep insisting on picking up levels in dual progression PrCs when the gestalt rules expressly say don't do it?

It fits the character concept.

On top of that, D&D for my group is a smokeout-cumma-cooperative storytelling session-cumma-"kill the monsters with dice".

The numbers all add up, I positively adore the accounting session that is gestalt character construction.

I guess I'm just arbitrarily thumbing my nose at that rule.

I quote Call of Cthulhu on what to do with the rules in the book: "Do what thou wilt." If I'm seriously breaking any laws, I hope Ryan Dancey and the OGL rangers break into our session and drag me off to my just punishment

 

[XCorvis]

Just do it level by level. Just take the better of the bonuses for each.

For example: (I don't have my books to check yours, so I am making one up)
1. Wizard1 / Rogue1
Wizard = +0 BAB, Fort +0, Ref +0, Will +2
Rogue = +0 BAB, Fort +0, Ref +2, Will +0
So for first level, you have a +0 BAB, Fort +0, Ref +2, Will +2.

For each level thereafter, you just continue taking the better of the bonuses for each. If, for example, you get +1 Ref from one class and +2 Ref from another for that level, take the +2 (not +3). If you get a +1 BAB from both classes for that level, you get a +1 (not +2).

It is the way we have always done gestalt, and is a heck of a lot easier than any other method. I believe it is also the way it is described in the book. The Fractional I believe were an optional rule. However, I don't have my books with me at the moment, so I cannot look it up.

If you "just add them," you wind up with people trying to do the Wizard-Fighter 1/Wizard-Sorcerer 19 that has a BAB of 20. Also, every time you change classes, the +2 bonus for a good save gets thrown in there, so you can get some really weird effects. It works fine for most situations and simple combos, but not for complex stuff. If you want to keep complex gestalt characters playable, you need to use the progression-based system or the fractional system. If you have search access, all of this has been discussed before. Thanee is the resident expert - I'm sure he'll chime in soon.

 

[Goddess FallenAngel]

If you "just add them," you wind up with people trying to do the Wizard-Fighter 1/Wizard-Sorcerer 19 that has a BAB of 20. Also, every time you change classes, the +2 bonus for a good save gets thrown in there, so you can get some really weird effects. It works fine for most situations and simple combos, but not for complex stuff. If you want to keep complex gestalt characters playable, you need to use the progression-based system or the fractional system. If you have search access, all of this has been discussed before. Thanee is the resident expert - I'm sure he'll chime in soon.

I admit to being confused, because the method I described, which you quoted, has worked just fine for everything from 1st level to 26th. We've been using it in my gaming group since the book came out (I can never remember if it was in UA or AU - I get the names mixed up). Why does it not work for complex characters? I'd like to see an example.