Get pedantic on Feeblemind

[Artoomis]

Much the same as if you cast Charm Person on a human who then turns into an ogre. The Charm Person spell is already in effect, so even though you could not cast it on an ogre, the ogre who is already under the effect of a Charm Person spell that was valid at casting time is Charmed.

Remember, Bestow Curse targets a creature, and Raise Dead explicitly states that curses are not undone when a creature is raised.

Bad examples. In both of those the spell energy is still in effect. Not an analogous situation.

Presumably, he'd use it to emulate the 9th-level-or-lower spell, Heal, which would work just fine.

-Hyp.

Possibly. But it is another example of a spell not on the list.

For that matter, what if he puts on a item that raises CHA and INT? Granted, he may still have a base CHA and INT of 1, but now they is raised up enough that the rest of the "state" decsription is not valid.

Trying to keep the list truly "exclusive" and complete is virtually impossible without violating other rules with any true basis for it.

 

[pawsplay]

Much the same as if you cast Charm Person on a human who then turns into an ogre. The Charm Person spell is already in effect, so even though you could not cast it on an ogre, the ogre who is already under the effect of a Charm Person spell that was valid at casting time is Charmed.

So an ogre can polymorph into a human, cast enlarge person, then use polymorph again to become a storm giant, resulting in his being gargantuan size?

What if you transformed someone into a greatsword, cast greater magic weapon on them, and allowed them to revert to their human form? Can you cast continual light on someone's body before reanimating them?

 

[Hypersmurf]

So an ogre can polymorph into a human, cast enlarge person, then use polymorph again to become a storm giant, resulting in his being gargantuan size?

That depends on whether the DM considers an ogre polymorphing into a Storm Giant to be a 'magical effect that increases size'. I don't, so I'd say yes, Gargantuan.

What if you transformed someone into a greatsword, cast greater magic weapon on them, and allowed them to revert to their human form?

Anyone using them as a weapon would get a +3 on attack and damage rolls.

Can you cast continual light on someone's body before reanimating them?

Continual Flame? Sure.

-Hyp.

 

[Deset Gled]

However, I prefer a less precise approach

From the title, I was under the impression that the purpose of this thead was to find the most precise answer.

 

[Slaved]

From the title, I was under the impression that the purpose of this thead was to find the most precise answer.

Wasnt that given earlier? Break enchantment works because it says that it does and feeblemind does not say that break enchantment does not work. Seems simple enough

 

[glass]

Wasnt that given earlier? Break enchantment works because it says that it does and feeblemind does not say that break enchantment does not work. Seems simple enough

Several very smart people (plus me ) have been arguing for the last nine pages that feeblemind does indeed say that BE does not work.


glass.

 

[Mephistopheles]

Possibly. But it is another example of a spell not on the list.

Why does Alter Reality need to be on the list? When a deity duplicates a Heal spell with Alter Reality then for all intents and purposes it is a Heal that is being cast to remove the feeblemind effect.

For that matter, what if he puts on a item that raises CHA and INT? Granted, he may still have a base CHA and INT of 1, but now they is raised up enough that the rest of the "state" decsription is not valid.

Trying to keep the list truly "exclusive" and complete is virtually impossible without violating other rules with any true basis for it.

This is already covered in the FAQ.

A feeblemind spells reduces the subject’s Intelligence and Charisma scores to 1 (not just Intelligence). Of course, if the subject already has a score of 0, feeblemind doesn’t increase the score. The subject’s Intelligence and Charisma become 1 (or stay at 0) regardless of any enhancements or other increases to those scores.

A feeblemind effect remains until the subject receives a heal, limited wish, miracle, or wish spell. The subject cannot benefit from any effect that increases Intelligence or Charisma until the feeblemind effect is removed.

 

[Cedric]

I would just like to summarize my position by explaining my thoughts on the hierarchy of rules. This applies to all rules based activities, not just D&D. These are presented in order of ascending priority in relation to one another.

1. Generic, or generically stated rules. They can even be broad, sweeping rules that affect numerous aspects of the activity.
2. Specific rules. They are rules related to a particular aspect or aspects of the activity being governed, and take precedent over generic rules with regard to the particular aspect(s) in question.
3. More specific rules. They follow all of the guidelines of specific rules, however, they address a narrow scope of the specific rule they follow and alter its use in some fashion. These take precedent over Generic or Specific rules.

That's the way rules are used in just about any activity I can think of...example.

1. Generic Rule - In NCAA College Football, using bodily force to reposition, move, overcome or evade other players is completely acceptable.

2. Specific Rule - At no time may you place your hands upon the facemask of another player and certainly may not grasp or pull on the facemask of another player. Doing so will result in one of several penalties.

3. More specific rule - If you are the ball carrier and are running with the football, you may outstretch one arm (called a stiff arm) and use that arm to maintain distance from other players. While using the stiff arm maneuver as a ball carrier, you may contact or briefly grasp the facemask of another player without penalty.

Now...I'm sure I could come up with dozens of examples. But, in the end, that's just the way a rules based system is meant to function. And that's the way I am applying the rules in this case.

 

[Pielorinho]

Much the same as if you cast Charm Person on a human who then turns into an ogre

So what would you say is the intelligence score of the corpse?

Is someone under the effects of Feeblemind immune to the effects of intelligence-damaging poisons?

Daniel

 

[glass]

Is someone under the effects of Feeblemind immune to the effects of intelligence-damaging poisons?

Not unless they somehow tried to raise Int (or Cha) above 1.


glass.