Get pedantic on Feeblemind

[Thanee]

No it's not. It a different spell. "This spell functions like heal, except as noted above. The maximum number of hit points restored to each creature is 250." It is not the same spell.

That's all there needs to be. Only Heal and those other three work. This works as Heal. This works.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

I think that is enough to demonstrate feeblemind is not an "immovable object." It is simply an instantaneous spell with certain effects and remedies. It itself does not have the ability to define how other spells work, such as break enchantment.

This is obviously wrong, since many spells list other spells, that do not work against them. They thereby do not define how other spells, but only how other spells work in context with themselves, thus defining themselves.

Try Prismatic Wall, for example. You don't want to tell us, that it can be brought down by thousands of spells, and not only by the ones listed, or do you? Well, I guess you do.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Pielorinho]

However, BE states that it can remove the effect of someone in such a state.

Absolutely agreed. Again, I am not arguing that, per the rules, Break Enchantment doesn't work. I am arguing that, according to a strict reading of the rules, Break Enchantment removes the effect of Feeblemind, AND that someone under the effect of Feeblemind remains under this effect after the Break Enchantment is cast. Fatal Exception Error.

Thanee, the spell is unworkable in play because it makes someone under the effect of Feeblemind immortal. A dead creature, IIRC, is an inanimate object, and inanimate objects have no intelligence score. You cannot remove the intelligence score of a person under the effect of Feeblemind, however: they continue to have an Int of 1 until they're affected by one of the four listed effects. You therefore cannot turn them into an inanimate object, which means you can't kill them.

I suppose you could work that into play,but the spell becomes far more powerful in that case. Armies of immortal animals FTW!

Daniel

 

[Thanee]

Thanee, the spell is unworkable in play because it makes someone under the effect of Feeblemind immortal. A dead creature, IIRC, is an inanimate object, and inanimate objects have no intelligence score. You cannot remove the intelligence score of a person under the effect of Feeblemind, however: they continue to have an Int of 1 until they're affected by one of the four listed effects. You therefore cannot turn them into an inanimate object, which means you can't kill them.

Very reasonable interpretation!



Bye
Thanee

 

[glass]

Thanee, the spell is unworkable in play because it makes someone under the effect of Feeblemind immortal. A dead creature, IIRC, is an inanimate object, and inanimate objects have no intelligence score. You cannot remove the intelligence score of a person under the effect of Feeblemind, however: they continue to have an Int of 1 until they're affected by one of the four listed effects. You therefore cannot turn them into an inanimate object, which means you can't kill them.

If the target creature fails a Will saving throw, its Intelligence and Charisma scores each drop to 1.

Feeblemind only reduces the Intelligence of creatures to 1. Since dead creatures aren't creatures any more, they are no longer subject to the int restriction. So they can be Int -, and dead, just fine while feebleminded.


glass.

 

[Pielorinho]

Feeblemind only reduces the Intelligence of creatures to 1. Since dead creatures aren't creatures any more, they are no longer subject to the int restriction. So they can be Int -, and dead, just fine while feebleminded.

I'm not sure I buy that. The subject, after all, "remains in this state until" etc. Surely changing from a creature to an object means that they're no longer in that state.

But even if I stipulate that you're correct, a programmatic reading of the spell (which, again, I reject) suggests that such creatures are immune to wisdom or int-draining poisons or other effects. Do you agree?

Daniel

 

[sirwmholder]

I don't think Break Enchantment would work... Feeble Mind reduces the person to an Int and Cha of 1 then it is done ( ie instantanious )... you could walk through an anti-magic field and your ability scores would still be 1... therefore there is no enchantment to break... it's not like a Lesser Geas/Quest. Just my take.

Thank you for your time,
Wm. Holder

 

[Pielorinho]

I don't think Break Enchantment would work... Feeble Mind reduces the person to an Int and Cha of 1 then it is done ( ie instantanious )... you could walk through an anti-magic field and your ability scores would still be 1... therefore there is no enchantment to break... it's not like a Lesser Geas/Quest. Just my take.

How, then, do you interpret the line in which Break Enchantment specifically says it can reverse instantaneous effects?

Daniel

 

[Thanee]

Yep.

He has a point, though, that it is kinda weird, that BE affects instantaneous effects.

There isn't really anything to break left. You can only restore (or should be able to, anyways).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Artoomis]

This is obviously wrong, since many spells list other spells, that do not work against them. They thereby do not define how other spells, but only how other spells work in context with themselves, thus defining themselves.

Try Prismatic Wall, for example. You don't want to tell us, that it can be brought down by thousands of spells, and not only by the ones listed, or do you? Well, I guess you do.

Bye
Thanee

Prismatic Wall is not "instantaneous." That's what makes all the difference here. Any non-instantaneous spell is free to state anything about how to neutralize the spell's effects - after al, the spell is STILL in effect while you are trying to neutrailize it.

Instantaneous spells are different. There is no more magic in place. "The spell energy comes and goes the instant the spell is cast, though the consequences might be long-lasting." Thus any list of how to reverse the effects of an instananeous spell are, by defintion, a permissive list of how to reverse the effects of the spell. Other solutions may exist.

In fact, it is invalid for an instantaneous spell to have an exclusive list of remedies because there is no magic in place to enforce those restrictions.

That's the key point.