Getting rid of clerics in my homebrew.

Drowbane said:
- One basic spellcaster class, perhaps modeled after the Wizard (except d6 HD... HD will go from 6 to 12)
- Eight schools of magic. I feel as if I would have to throw out *alot* of spells that don't really fit the schools they are shoe-horned into... Conjuration's Orb spells for example.
Have you ever checked out Elements of Magic: Mythic Earth? It's a PDF available here on EnWorld. It breaks spells down into their very core abilities and groups them into 8 "effects", much like incantations. It's skill-based as well, so anyone can theoretically learn to cast magic, or not, at your whim.
 

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shadow said:
5. Make clerics rare - Only the most faithful servants get access to spells. This could work; in fact, it was my original idea. However, I still don't like the idea of the mechanistic approach to divine spells.

Maybe use the "Favored Soul" instead and go with only a few of them (one of which happens to be with the party)?

Otherwise, maybe go the Iron Heroes route?
 


Whereas the other classes have at least some representation in fantasy and mythical archetypes, the cleric class seems like a true D&D-ism. Sure there are myths and legends of priests and servants of gods, but I can find no examples of spellcasting priests in either classical mythology or fantasy literature (with the exception of D&D inspired fantasy novels).

:confused:
The Bible contains examples, not only of the powers of the saints & prophets, but others as well- the 1Ed spell Sticks to Snakes is based on a biblical passage in which Moses dueled the Pharoah's priests, both using that "spell."

Priests and the "divinely touched" revealing predictions of the future-accurate ones- are featured in many mythologies. If that doesn't sound like "spellcasting" from the divination school, I don't know what does.

Voudoun and religions of African origins often tell of priests who curse, or lift curses, who heal or harm, with but a few gestures. Again, spellcasting.

In fiction, you'll see healing priests in books by Joel Rosenberg, Tanith Lee, and others.

All that aside- be prepared, regardless of your campaign's particular solution, with the "healing" problem. I'm in a campaign right now that, while clerics are not omitted, we don't have a powerful one in our party (he only has CLW so far), and healing magics of the potion/scroll variety are rare. My Sorc/Ftr only avoided permanent death by semi-divine intervention (DM fiat- I don't think he wanted me to make a new PC).

Some other ideas:

1) One of my favorite all time solutions to the lack of healing magic is the DarkSun one- ignore it. Have your players design PC trees, and let the chips fall where they may.

2) Have healing base on skills- IOW, non-magical or pseudo-magical apothecarial/herbalist based healing.

3) Make Lay on Hands (the Paladin power) into a Feat. If you want, make it a Metamagic Feat- burn a spell to heal 1d4HP/spell level burned.
 

To bring (and modify) my response from a previous thread in relation to gods:

IMC (Renya), gods are (in most cases) essentially VERY powerful outsiders (called "spirits" by most people in my world). However, the more powerful an outsider is, the more "diffuse" and less "focused" it is; while the lesser outsiders (such as demons, celestials, nature-spirits, elementals and so on) can easily manifest in our world in a localised and "personalized" form - that is, appear as a "creature" - the stronger outsiders cannot manifest on our world in complete form, but can affect it directly (for example, cast spells on a specific place on our worlds). Those other-plane giants who are usually refered to as gods can rarely manifest directly or interfere directly in mortal lives; they might send messangers (i.e. lesser outsiders), dreams, affect very long-term processes such as evolution or geological processes... And, ofcourse, pass dim visions of their vast glories to mortal minds, visions that either grant magical powers (divine magic and abilities) to those mortals who have affinity with them, or allow the mortals tap some hidden potential within their souls (this is unclear). These vast beings rarely think in the way mortals do; they are more... diffuse... more... nonlocalised. Mosrtals interept the foggy visions, the signs and protents received from these beings, according to the capacity of their tiny, localised mortal; minds; the mortals grant names and agendas to their interpretation, and as long as they follow a conceptual and behavioural road which is, in general, in affinity of that great being, they continue to recieve its "gifts", or to be in touch with the inner potential of their own soul or mind (depends on which scholar you ask).

Why am I keeping my gods non-involved in my world? To keep the focus on mortals; to allow religious schisms and sects who worship the same god (they may vary greatly in details, but have enough common ground to continue to travel in the road of that god), to allow multiple pantheons (they vary by region and culture); and to make belief far more a personal and emotional thing (as it is in our world) than the "political" reverence of a being which everyone could clearly percieve as all-powerful and present.

An example: the One Mother/Great Mother/Tree Mother (name varies with geographical region), a quasi-monotheistic goddess of nature, death, rebirth and fertility worshipped by the non-tribal parts of the Celirans (as well as by Human druids who call her "Nature" or "Mother Nature); tribal Celirans follow a more shamanistic road and deal with a vast multitude of smaller spirits, though they do pay tribute to the One Mother as well. The One Mother has several aspects which could be worshipped seperately (and treated as different goddesses, even though they are very closely related): the Green Mother (usually called just "The One Mother"), a Neutral Good goddess of nature, life, fertility and agriculture; the Dark Mother (or Dark Womb or Dark Moon, depending on cult), a Neutral Evil goddess of death, predators and erosion (and rot); Mother Swamp (or Mother Tree), a True Neutral goddess of nature and the cycle of life-death-rebirth; and the Wild One, a Chaotic Neutral goddess of wilderness, ferality, love and war (who somewhat tends towards evil; my concept of her is based on Anat, the ancient Cnaanite goddess of love and war, which was described as "bathing in blood up to her waist").
 

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