Giant Crocodile - Strong CR4?

[Darklone]

BTW, someone suggested using max Power Attack to deal max damage to the "very low AC" croc. That's a bad idea. Even while grappling, a giant croc has AC 15 ... giving up 4 points of BAB for 8 points of damage is (usually) a terrible trade-off there. Assuming a Strength of 18, and +3 from other sources, max Power Attacking gives a flat 35 percent chance of missing outright.

Use Power Attack if the victim is going to be dead in the next round ... otherwise, don't risk it. (Unless, of course, the fun of Power Attack is all about the risk for you, in which case go for it!)

Yeah, FPAATT!!!!

 

[Stalker0]

Here's another question, Hyp mentioned that the croc would do damage on its pin attempt. Would that be bite damage, or standard unarmed damage for a huge creature?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I've wondered about this too. Is the 10x10 (or whatever) rule only in effect during combat?

Yep.

Or, rather, no; they're always in effect. However, the effects of squeezing (penalty to AC, penalty to attack rolls, etc.) really only affects combat statistics. Therefore, outside of combat, it's almost never a problem to be squeezing.

Squeezing: In some cases, you may have to squeeze into or through an area that isn’t as wide as the space you take up. You can squeeze through or into a space that is at least half as wide as your normal space. Each move into or through a narrow space counts as if it were 2 squares, and while squeezed in a narrow space you take a –4 penalty on attack rolls and a –4 penalty to AC.

When a Large creature (which normally takes up four squares) squeezes into a space that’s one square wide, the creature’s miniature figure occupies two squares, centered on the line between the two squares. For a bigger creature, center the creature likewise in the area it squeezes into.

A creature can squeeze past an opponent while moving but it can’t end its movement in an occupied square.

To squeeze through or into a space less than half your space’s width, you must use the Escape Artist skill. You can’t attack while using Escape Artist to squeeze through or into a narrow space, you take a –4 penalty to AC, and you lose any Dexterity bonus to AC.

For a snake, his head and shoulders (heh) fit easily down a 5' wide corridor, so he doesn't actually need to make the Escape Artist check. For more humanoid-shaped creatures, they'd likely need to.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Here's another question, Hyp mentioned that the croc would do damage on its pin attempt. Would that be bite damage, or standard unarmed damage for a huge creature?

Bite damage; since that's the natural weapon Improved Grab used to establish the hold, that's the damage he deals on each successful grapple check in successive rounds, and establishing a pin requires a successful grapple check.

-Hyp.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Here's another question, Hyp mentioned that the croc would do damage on its pin attempt. Would that be bite damage, or standard unarmed damage for a huge creature?

He does bite damage, because of the Improved Grab special ability (posted earlier).

 

[Nail]

What does everyone think about the Sorcerer targeting his fireball so that it hit the croc but not the Fighter? Should he have been able to do it or not?

Nope. The Ftr now shares the Giant Croc's space.



Some thoughts about the encounter:

• You should have given everyone a Spot check. Being distracted has a penalty, but it doesn't mean they don't get to Spot. You really made things difficult for the PCs because of your ad hoc ruling.
  
• The croc takes a penalty to his Hide check to move if it's moving faster than 1/2 Mv. The reason for movement (current or croc's own motive power) is irrelevant. And given "lines of sight" on a river, the range you would start checking Spots would be very large. Since the Croc's Hide check is +1, it's highly likely the PCs would see him well away from the boat. Again, you hugely favored your monster here.
  
• Since you favored the monster significantly, I sincerely hope you gave an XP boost to the victorious PCs.
  
• For the Monster Manual (3.5e), the average for CR 4 is: Hp 46, AC 16, Atk +9, and damage per full attack is about 9. That makes the Giant Croc on the high side of CR 4. It might be a CR 5.
  
• The poor Ftr should have been taken to the bottom of the river by the croc. That said, the giant croc is too big for your river, and would still be visible at the surface while its belly is scraping the bottom!

 

[Nail]

Again:

You said the river was 10 - 15 ft wide. That means it's probably 2 - 8 feet deep! Meaning that the size Huge crocodile has his belly wet, but isn't really swimming. The crocodile ("more than 20 feet long" per SRD) doesn't even fit in the river you proposed!!!!

 

[werk]

Again:

You said the river was 10 - 15 ft wide. That means it's probably 2 - 8 feet deep! Meaning that the size Huge crocodile has his belly wet, but isn't really swimming. The crocodile ("more than 20 feet long" per SRD) doesn't even fit in the river you proposed!!!!

"One of the largest crocodile ever recorded was 8 metres 64 cm (28ft 4 inches) shot by Krystina Pawloski (School teacher, later conservationist) on the Norman River in northern Queensland, Australia in 1957."

Anyone near Queensland know how big the Norman River is on average? All the pics and data I'm finding is pretty close to the gulf, where the river spreads out.

15 feet is rather narrow tho, but you can easily say your description was off

 

[Olaf the Stout]

Nope. The Ftr now shares the Giant Croc's space.



Some thoughts about the encounter:

• You should have given everyone a Spot check. Being distracted has a penalty, but it doesn't mean they don't get to Spot. You really made things difficult for the PCs because of your ad hoc ruling.
  
• The croc takes a penalty to his Hide check to move if it's moving faster than 1/2 Mv. The reason for movement (current or croc's own motive power) is irrelevant. And given "lines of sight" on a river, the range you would start checking Spots would be very large. Since the Croc's Hide check is +1, it's highly likely the PCs would see him well away from the boat. Again, you hugely favored your monster here.
  
• Since you favored the monster significantly, I sincerely hope you gave an XP boost to the victorious PCs.
  
• For the Monster Manual (3.5e), the average for CR 4 is: Hp 46, AC 16, Atk +9, and damage per full attack is about 9. That makes the Giant Croc on the high side of CR 4. It might be a CR 5.
  
• The poor Ftr should have been taken to the bottom of the river by the croc. That said, the giant croc is too big for your river, and would still be visible at the surface while its belly is scraping the bottom!

My bad for not giving all the PC's a Spot check (even with a negative modifier). I'll remember that for next time.

Actually the croc gets a +4 racial bonus to hide checks while in water. It also gets a further +10 cover bonus to hide checks if it lies in the water with only its eyes and nostrils showing. As it stands though the depth of the river may not have been deep enough for it to do this. Probably a mistake on my part. In my defence, it was a bought adventure that I was running so I envoke my right to blame it all on the author!

And that also raises the question, how many Spot checks should the PC's have got to see the croc approaching? My initial though was just the 1 but now I am thinking that they should get 1 check every round until the croc attacks or goes out of sight.

Olaf the Stout

 

[Olaf the Stout]

Yep.

Or, rather, no; they're always in effect. However, the effects of squeezing (penalty to AC, penalty to attack rolls, etc.) really only affects combat statistics. Therefore, outside of combat, it's almost never a problem to be squeezing.

Except that you are reduced to half your speed while squeezing. Explain to me why a Huge snake should be slowed to half speed while travelling down a straight 5ft wide corridor? That just doesn't make sense to me.

Olaf the Stout