Giving twin strike to a fighter

[ryryguy]

How bad would it be? What's the average damage output of Twin Strike vs. average Striker at-wills and Fighter at-wills?

Actually I'm considering giving it to a monk brawler type built on Fighter. So his improved unarmed damage would probably be limited to 1d8 - no bastard swords. It could even be limited to 1d6 if 1d8/1d8 is too much for a defender.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Well, you have got to compare it to weapon + shield or 2H weapon
In the hands of a fighter, twin strike doesn't just lose you str mod to damage.

 

[Zurai]

Twin Strike has a very high damage potential for an at-will power. Probably the highest damage potential at higher levels; you get 4W damage, plus double weapon enhancement bonus, feat damage bonuses, vulnerability bonuses, and so on. It's dramatically better at damage than any of the Fighter at-wills. It would also allow the Fighter to multi-mark at will, which could be an unintended consequence.

 

[ryryguy]

Ah, good points, Zurai.

The brawler might only get a minimal level-appropriate "ki enhancement bonus" to his unarmed, limiting the effect of the double weapon enhancement bonus and vulnerability bonuses (no energy types). I'll think about the marking issue, that hadn't occurred to me.

 

[Danceofmasks]

I disagree ..

For starters, at higher levels your stat bonus to damage is higher, but set that aside for awhile.
As a fighter, you have to use an off-hand weapon to twin strike.
A great weapon fighter doesn't have to invest in 2 magic weapons.
Also, basic attack is an at will power.
For a fighter and his OAs, +6 damage from bracers isn't unexpected ..

If you're looking at damage output vs. a single target (without the extra effects of at wills), should be comparing it vs. basic attack.

 

[DLichen]

Even with the extra damage from the bracers, since you can grab heavy blade opportunity, twinstrike is much much better.

According to my quick math using 50% hit chance (possibly wrong) and assuming +8 str and con and +7 to dex with weapon mastery:

At level 30, generic +6 twinstriking scimitars deal 29.8 damage per use

A generic +6 hammer buffed with bracers deal 23.5 damage on a basic attack

Then you factor in the fact that with feats the scimitars also provide light shield level defense and +1 damage and the gap grows even larger. This is even better than the 28.05 damage that a 4[w] fighter encounter power would do.

Twinstrike is awesome with good equipment, no question.

And to respond to the original post about fists - it would be fine at low levels. But with the lack of support feats for a fist fighter, a paragon or higher campaign would be a real pain for said character.

 

[generalhenry]

how bad would it be to give rangers +1 to hit.

 

[MarkB]

how bad would it be to give rangers +1 to hit.

Well, it'll make warlocks cry, for a start.

 

[erik_the_guy]

Even with the extra damage from the bracers, since you can grab heavy blade opportunity, twinstrike is much much better.

According to my quick math using 50% hit chance (possibly wrong) and assuming +8 str and con and +7 to dex with weapon mastery:

At level 30, generic +6 twinstriking scimitars deal 29.8 damage per use

A generic +6 hammer buffed with bracers deal 23.5 damage on a basic attack

Then you factor in the fact that with feats the scimitars also provide light shield level defense and +1 damage and the gap grows even larger. This is even better than the 28.05 damage that a 4[w] fighter encounter power would do.

Twinstrike is awesome with good equipment, no question.

And to respond to the original post about fists - it would be fine at low levels. But with the lack of support feats for a fist fighter, a paragon or higher campaign would be a real pain for said character.

I don't mean to insult you, but you are including no ability mod to damage for twinstrike right? (you only deal [W] with no ability mod). If so then wow, that's a lot of damage (I guess the bracers help with that).

It's not broken IMO, if your fighter chooses this path he will tend to deal more damage (ranger skills SHOULD make him more like a striker) but he will be worse at other things (with two magic weapons to budged his AC etc is going to take a hit).

Edit: Oh and power attack great weapon fighter (at epic tier) is +9

 

[Danceofmasks]

A fighter can't twin strike with scimitars ... it's not an off-hand weapon.