Goblins as a PC Race

[Nahat Anoj]

When monsters make the transition from an MMx write-up to a full-blown PC race, they usually get a few tweaks and minor buffs to give them some flavor. For example, before their PC write-up, gnomes in MM1 only had their skill bumps, Fey Origin, Reactive Stealth, and Fade Away. When they were written up in PH2, they got Master Trickster (1/encounter ghost sound as a minor action) and Trickster's Cunning (+5 saves versus illusions), both of which are cool abilities that really play up the sly nature of the gnome race.

Unfortunately, it'll be a while (if ever) until they get around to statting up goblins as a PC race. One of my players wants to make a goblin bard in an upcoming level 1 one shot this Sunday, and I'd like to give him some cool extras. Can anyone think of any ideas, or has anyone tried their hand at this already? In case you're interested, here's what goblins have already:

Ability scores: +2 Charisma, +2 Dexterity
Size: Small
Speed: 6 squares.
Vision: Low-light

Languages: Common, Goblin
Skill Bonuses: +2 Stealth, +2 Thievery.
Goblin Reflexes: You gain a +1 racial bonus to your Reflex defense.
Goblin Tactics: You can use goblin tactics as an at-will power.

We can also extend this to hobgoblins and bugbears if people would like, although the need for those monsters to be statted up as PC races is less for me. I don't have any ideas for bugbears, although I know they'd lose Oversized if they were given the full PC treatment.

For hobgoblins, I'm thinking about changing their ability scores slightly. Right now, they have +2 Con/+2 Cha. I'm thinking about changing their ability score bonuses to +2 Con/+2 Dex, so they can be good flail-using fighters. But I'd like hobgoblins to have some synergy with warlord, so I might make their ability bonuses be +2 Con, +2 Dex or +2 Cha.

 

[Flipguarder]

First, I'm pretty sure this thread would feel more at home in the homebrew 4e forum.

I think that having hobgoblins at con/cha is pretty good. I think if Hobgoblins had a close burst dmg bonus to allies against non-bloodied enemies that would be cool.

Giving goblins a pick-pocket attempt at-will free action triggered when using a daily melee attack power would be pretty cool imo.

 

[surfarcher]

If you are going to have Goblins as PCs shouldn't they get a racial at-will Immediate Reaction - shift one square on missed melee?

 

[Dice4Hire]

If you really want to make them viable, they need a full array of feats for every class and at every tier.

A lot of work

 

[Flipguarder]

That is just incredibly untrue. Almost every 4e character I've made has had 0 racial feats. and every character I've made is viable, if not downright kickass.

And there is certainly not even 1 feat for every class, race, and tier combination. Let alone anything that could be described as a "full array"

 

[Nahat Anoj]

First, I'm pretty sure this thread would feel more at home in the homebrew 4e forum.

You are correct. I totally forgot about the house rules forum. If a mod wants it so, this thread can be closed and a new one started in 4e houserules?

I think that having hobgoblins at con/cha is pretty good. I think if Hobgoblins had a close burst dmg bonus to allies against non-bloodied enemies that would be cool.

I was thinking that I might give all hobgoblins proficiency in a military flail, like how all dwarves get proficiency in warhammer. I'm thinking of a "Hobgoblin Flail Training" feat that makes hobboes proficient in all flail weapons and gives a +2 to damage. I do think there needs to be a Dex option for hobgoblins, because the flail powers for fighters use Dex as a secondary attribute.

Giving goblins a pick-pocket attempt at-will free action triggered when using a daily melee attack power would be pretty cool imo.

This is a pretty cool idea...

If you are going to have Goblins as PCs shouldn't they get a racial at-will Immediate Reaction - shift one square on missed melee?

Of course! They still have Goblin Tactics.

If you really want to make them viable, they need a full array of feats for every class and at every tier.

A lot of work

I would like to make goblins a viable race some day, but for now all I'd like is one or two extra goblin racial features. I've hit a wall trying to think up these features on my own so I'm hitting up the forums for ideas.

 

[UltimaGabe]

I do think there needs to be a Dex option for hobgoblins, because the flail powers for fighters use Dex as a secondary attribute.

True, that would be cool, but way too versatile. Unless there's one that escapes me at the moment, no race in 4e is given any sort of choice on their racial adjustments- save the human, who only gets one boost as the tradeoff. Just because they use flails doesn't mean that they should have a racial bonus to it beyond proficiency. Dwarves make great Fighters, but they don't get an option to have a bonus to Strength, do they? I think that Hobgoblin Warlords make the most sense, and as such, their stats (Con and Cha) should reflect that. Being great at using a flail is always an option, whether they get a stat bonus or not. Racial bonuses should nudge you in the direction of what class to take, not what build to go for, IMO.

 

[Piratecat]

You are correct. I totally forgot about the house rules forum. If a mod wants it so, this thread can be closed and a new one started in 4e houserules?

Yes please. I'd move it if our "move threads" function wasn't on hiatus pending the upgrade.

Start a new thread there, post the link here, and then I'll swing this shut.

 

[Dice4Hire]

That is just incredibly untrue. Almost every 4e character I've made has had 0 racial feats. and every character I've made is viable, if not downright kickass.

Really? Some of them are incredibly good. If you want to choose non-racial feats, more power to you, but saying none of them are worth taking is pretty extreme.

Racial feats do a good job of helping differentiate one character from the other. A goblin is not a halfling and racial feats help show that mechanically.

 

[Flipguarder]

Really? Some of them are incredibly good. If you want to choose non-racial feats, more power to you, but saying none of them are worth taking is pretty extreme.

Racial feats do a good job of helping differentiate one character from the other. A goblin is not a halfling and racial feats help show that mechanically.

I'm not saying non of them are worth taking, I'm saying my characters generally don't use them. Human ones are meh, and so are the warforged ones.

I tend to think that differentiating halflings from goblins is about 80% rp and 20% mechanics.

At the end of the day, all I was saying is you don't need to give a race "an array of feats for every class at every tier" to be viable.