Good Cleric with Command Undead

[Dross]

I would be more inclined to have the Turn attempt give free will to the undead and let them decide what to do.

Something along the lines of them deciding on a fitting retribution.

Admittedly more homework for the DM, but he could default to attacking the necro, but could provide aid to the party (knowledge, aid another, guide to treasury, etc) if they feel so inclined.

Personally I would be very loath to have the "good" cleric have any control over the undead (personal bias I guess).

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Any particular reason this player wants to be a Cleric of Pelor? It sounds like the character is not yet created, so perhaps there are other ways to modify the build.
For example, Instead of being a Good Cleric, how about Lawful Neutral? Than, being neutral, he can choose either way. He can choose Controlling Undead (And spontaneous Inflict instead of Spontaneous Cure spells, a slight bummer) and still roleplay a pretty decent character. If you choose to Follow Wee Jas, you've got a Darker persona built in, and according to Deities and Demigods, such clerics "arbitrate disputes, give advice on magic, investigate magical curiosities, create magic items, and administer funerals". Not evil, but grim, curious.

Or your friend could simply not follow any deity, or follow the pantheon of deities.

Just note, Spontaneous Cure and Turning Undead go together.

Another option might be a single level dip into Dread Necromancer.

 

[Omegaxicor]

I would be more inclined to have the Turn attempt give free will to the undead and let them decide what to do.

Something along the lines of them deciding on a fitting retribution.

Admittedly more homework for the DM, but he could default to attacking the necro, but could provide aid to the party (knowledge, aid another, guide to treasury, etc) if they feel so inclined.

Personally I would be very loath to have the "good" cleric have any control over the undead (personal bias I guess).

I agree I don't want him to control the undead, that would seem...odd

Any particular reason this player wants to be a Cleric of Pelor? It sounds like the character is not yet created, so perhaps there are other ways to modify the build.
For example, Instead of being a Good Cleric, how about Lawful Neutral? Than, being neutral, he can choose either way. He can choose Controlling Undead (And spontaneous Inflict instead of Spontaneous Cure spells, a slight bummer) and still roleplay a pretty decent character. If you choose to Follow Wee Jas, you've got a Darker persona built in, and according to Deities and Demigods, such clerics "arbitrate disputes, give advice on magic, investigate magical curiosities, create magic items, and administer funerals". Not evil, but grim, curious.

Or your friend could simply not follow any deity, or follow the pantheon of deities.

Just note, Spontaneous Cure and Turning Undead go together.

Another option might be a single level dip into Dread Necromancer.

1) He is going a Cleric of Pelor because Pelor is the default Human deity, no special attachment

2) since he is our main healer I would like him to be able to cast cure spells (which he can just not spontaneously) and be able to Turn/Destroy Undead but on occasion (say the final encounter) when undead and the guy who raised them are in the same room he could get the undead to attack the necromancer it would be unusable if the main bad guy wasn't the necromancer but the necromancer's boss

3) Following no deity in out of the question, I generally rule that the powers of the cleric come from his service to a god not faith itself

4) I really like the idea of having the player having Profession (Mortician)/Craft (Corpse)/Knowledge (Dead Bodies)

 

[Empirate]

First off, you should make sure the player isn't arguing just so he can get an easy power boost. Rebuke/Command Undead IS stronger than Turn/Destroy Undead. Especially since you can usually keep commanded undead around for however long you want.

Second, if the player really just likes the idea of having undead turn on their creator, and he's kinda dead set on having that little trick (extremely circumstantial, to say the least), allow him to do spell research so Command Undead and Control Undead are available to him (at a level higher than they are on the Sor/Wiz list).

Also note that commanding undead to turn on somebody who already commands them is normally impossible.

 

[the Jester]

It doesn't matter what he believes, it matters what his god believes, and his god does NOT believe in commanding undead.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I would be more inclined to have the Turn attempt give free will to the undead and let them decide what to do.

Something along the lines of them deciding on a fitting retribution.

Admittedly more homework for the DM, but he could default to attacking the necro, but could provide aid to the party (knowledge, aid another, guide to treasury, etc) if they feel so inclined.

Personally I would be very loath to have the "good" cleric have any control over the undead (personal bias I guess).

Yeah, I was having thoughts along these lines. Allow a turn to simply break control without taking control. They become free-willed with a knowledge of what the necromancer did to them.

 

[airwalkrr]

First off, you should make sure the player isn't arguing just so he can get an easy power boost. Rebuke/Command Undead IS stronger than Turn/Destroy Undead. Especially since you can usually keep commanded undead around for however long you want.

This is an important point to keep in mind. There is a built-in balance to tying the turn/rebuke aspect to the cure/inflict aspect. For your average given party of PCs, the ability spontaneously heal is invaluable. To then grant the cleric the ability to keep around undead minions is getting the best of both worlds. Unless the entire party is comprised of undead (stranger things have happened), then you can either keep armies of undead around or you can cure yourself and your buddies without having to prep the spells.

But I really don't see how this is such an issue. Pelor despises undeath. It is an abomination. He wouldn't grant his clerics any sort of power over the will of undead because he would simply prefer them destroyed. Pelor knows that toying with undeath is a path that leads to corruption, so he wouldn't allow his clerics to do it.

 

[Omegaxicor]

As I have said he is a Cleric of Pelor because he wants to be a Cleric and he is Human so unless he changes it he is a Cleric of Pelor, I have asked him about going a Cleric of Wee Jas and he is looking at it.

I know the player well, he isn't demanding that he can do it in a way to power up his character, he is wondering if his character would be able to use his power to command the undead (until the end of the encounter) to attack the Necromancer and then they become...unraised? basically they go back to being dead. Since he can't command the Undead specifically he just gives the one order, one time (per casting but each undead affected successfully/unsuccessfully is immune to further attempts) to attack the guy who raised them, then it isn't too powerful, I think (that's kinda what I was asking)

As was mentioned on page 1 it is a very situational ability and I was just curious if he would be able to be a Cleric (under any god) so long as he isn't evil, that could cast Cure spells, turn undead and on occasion where it is applicable command some undead to attack the guy who raised them (and the mechanics behind the ability)

whether he is a cleric of Pelor is another matter (Pelor may allow the dead to get their revenge before they Rest in Peace) but if another deity would be better then I will tell him that

 

[the Jester]

I know the player well, he isn't demanding that he can do it in a way to power up his character, he is wondering if his character would be able to use his power to command the undead (until the end of the encounter) to attack the Necromancer and then they become...unraised? basically they go back to being dead. Since he can't command the Undead specifically he just gives the one order, one time (per casting but each undead affected successfully/unsuccessfully is immune to further attempts) to attack the guy who raised them, then it isn't too powerful, I think (that's kinda what I was asking)

Yes it is, at least if he can still channel to spontaneously cure.

The rules are very clear about this: if you channel positive energy, you spontaneously heal and turn undead. If you channel negative energy, you spontaneously inflict and rebuke undead. There are very good balance reasons to leave it this way, even ignoring that the cleric is possibly the strongest class anyway.

To me, re-writing the god a pc serves so he can cherry pick the best abilities falls under "absolutely not", but YMMV.

It doesn't sound like you want real feedback, though, it sounds like you want someone to affirm that, yes, this is fine. If your mind is made up, it's made up, but why are you asking? If you're genuinely interested in the responses, why are you ignoring the ones that don't agree with your conclusion?

 

[airwalkrr]

As I have said he is a Cleric of Pelor because he wants to be a Cleric and he is Human so unless he changes it he is a Cleric of Pelor, I have asked him about going a Cleric of Wee Jas and he is looking at it.

Maybe you are just going on the simple PH descriptions, but Pelor isn't exactly the "default" deity for humans. The deities in the PH are just a small sampling of gods from the Greyhawk campaign setting and a number of them are from human pantheons. Heironeous and Hextor, for example, come from the Oeridian pantheon, Oeridians being a subrace of humans in the Greyhawk setting. Wee Jas is a member of the Suel pantheon, which tends to be very humanocentric, even human supremacist. Vecna was once a human (then a lich) himself before he became a god. The only gods in the PH who are associated closely with non-human races are Corellon Larethian, Ehlonna (who has more an equal-opportunity goddess for both humans and elves), Erythnul, Garl Glittergold, Gruumsh, Moradin, and Yondalla. The rest come from pantheons that are human in origin.

I know the player well, he isn't demanding that he can do it in a way to power up his character, he is wondering if his character would be able to use his power to command the undead (until the end of the encounter) to attack the Necromancer and then they become...unraised? basically they go back to being dead. Since he can't command the Undead specifically he just gives the one order, one time (per casting but each undead affected successfully/unsuccessfully is immune to further attempts) to attack the guy who raised them, then it isn't too powerful, I think (that's kinda what I was asking)

No, the rules don't allow it. So if you are asking what the Rules As Written (RAW) say, no, he can't be a cleric of Pelor and have any ability to command undead. Whether or not you feel it is appropriate is completely up to you as a DM decision. But it really doesn't fit the character of Pelor or any good cleric for that matter to command the undead for any purpose whatsoever. The best favor a good cleric can do for the undead is to put them to rest. Deal with the necromancer after his minions are gone (which means he is probably much less of a threat anyway).

As was mentioned on page 1 it is a very situational ability and I was just curious if he would be able to be a Cleric (under any god) so long as he isn't evil, that could cast Cure spells, turn undead and on occasion where it is applicable command some undead to attack the guy who raised them (and the mechanics behind the ability)

There are no rules for this. You'd be going off the rulebooks if you want to allow that. That's fine, but you'd have to figure out what was acceptable and how to do it because its your game and it would be your house rule.

whether he is a cleric of Pelor is another matter (Pelor may allow the dead to get their revenge before they Rest in Peace) but if another deity would be better then I will tell him that

Pelor would not allow the dead to get their revenge because the dead wouldn't see it that way. As stated above, the best favor a good cleric (and Pelor for that matter) can do for the undead is to put them to rest. Using them to attack a necromancer is a slippery moral slope that probably shouldn't be tread upon.

Here is an interesting idea though, if you want to grab it. Perhaps the cleric uses a turn undead ability with the intent of controlling the undead to turn them against their master. From the cleric's point of view he is committing a small evil for the greater good. And for some reason, even though he knows it shouldn't be possible, it works. The undead fall under his command and attack the necromancer. Afterward, they fall over, their spirits released. The cleric thinks "Interesting, I suppose Pelor approves." But in fact, Pelor does NOT approve. The cleric, without realizing it, channeled the power of Nerull, who saw fit to grant the cleric with this power solely to tempt him to use it again. Eventually, Nerull hopes the cleric will grow to rely on this ability, even abuse it. At that point, Pelor stops granting divine abilities to the cleric and the cleric is forced to atone. But that is when the priest of Nerull steps forward and says to the cleric "Ah, but there is another way..."