"Good" Creatures that are Chaotic or at least anti-Civilization

[Eltab]

An earth elemental whose natural existence (and travels) causes earthquakes. Enough to rattle the dishes off the shelves, not flatten houses … unless it gets up close. You might use the Horta from Star Trek to explain this creature's motivation. Of course miners and people who live near crumbly cliff faces will want the monster dealt with.

 

[Hussar]

There are surprisingly few CG monsters in the MM. Of course there aren't that many good monsters in the MM at all. The list is: brass or copper dragons, djinni, faerie dragons, pegusus, storm giant, treants.

As some others pointed out elves fit the bill. As far as other groups, I don't assume that chaotic means crazy people that will never band together or cooperate with a group. It just means they don't respect a title, they respect the person and their actions. They may not have hard-coded laws because they believe in the simple rule of "do unto others as you would have them do unto you", etc.

For some reason chaotic alignments get a bad rep that I will never understand. So have a tribe of fierce freedom loving barbarians that have a functioning democracy or a band of elves who simply want you to prove your worth.

It's arguable that a functioning democracy is chaotic. After all a functioning democracy works because you have strong rules in place which claim that everyone is equal. Chaotic alignments don't value the notion that everyone is equal - they value the individual and you cannot value the individual if you are considered the same as everyone else. Thus, Chaotic Evil becomes domineering with the "might is right" leader beating his followers into submission.

It's always been very problematic to apply alignments to groups. And long lasting social group has to trend towards lawful, otherwise they will simply fracture apart.

 

[bedir than]

Rangers, lots and lots of Rangers

 

[Oofta]

It's arguable that a functioning democracy is chaotic. After all a functioning democracy works because you have strong rules in place which claim that everyone is equal. Chaotic alignments don't value the notion that everyone is equal - they value the individual and you cannot value the individual if you are considered the same as everyone else. Thus, Chaotic Evil becomes domineering with the "might is right" leader beating his followers into submission.

It's always been very problematic to apply alignments to groups. And long lasting social group has to trend towards lawful, otherwise they will simply fracture apart.

Do they? Elves have societies that last for centuries, yet they are chaotic. I don't want to derail into a never-ending "what does alignment mean" argument though, I just think there is plenty of room for a society that accepts that some structure may be necessary for the greater good without being considered lawful. A chaotic good group would probably be a meritocracy, will have accepted guidelines of conduct with violations adjudicated on a case-by-case basis, etc. Very large groups probably do tend towards law just because of administrative overhead. Even then, they don't have to lawful, they could just be neutral good which is something a lot of people seem to ignore.

It's the same problem I have with people who would rather have a LE ally than a CG ally because apparently the CG person can never keep their word, form friendships, or be trusted to be anything but a flighty idiot. A LE character on the other hand is always on the up-and-up will never attempt to kill you and say "It's nothing personal, just business", turn on the party because of a sub-clause in their contract or because you violated some iron clad rule that only they knew about.

The whole law=good chaotic=bad does have it's roots in the original version of the game where there was only law and chaos, I just think it does a disservice to different points of view.

Anyway, sorry for the rant. Carry on.

 

[Horwath]

I see Chaotic more of a libertarian, promoting personal freedom, and law more promoting civilization as a unity before individual.

Saying that chaotic character always lies or that lawfull never lies is dumb. That is a fine character trait not an overall alignment.

That is why I always at the start of the campaign write Neutral(unless forced by class mechanic) and play the character as I meant to play it.
If down the road DM says you are now XYZ alignment, then whatever-i'm that alignment, I wont change my playstyle that I intended for my character.

 

[Hussar]

One the of the best bits in 4e was "Unaligned". To me, that was a fantastic addition to the game.

The whole caricature of chaotics will always lie is no different than saying all evils must kill everyone they see. It's a poor interpretation of the alignment.

However, the notion that a bunch of Chaotics will get together and be able to cooperate long enough to build a society is a bit too much for me. Any long term (as in generations long) society has to lean strongly on lawful concepts - the passing of power from one person to the next is a major element, just for a start.

I can see chaotics working in small, family groups. But a Chaotic good nation? I just never could wrap my head around it. Chaotic Evil? Sure, no problem. There's no shortage of despots in history. But a nation which eschews formal laws but still manages to persist over generations? Just not going to happen.

It's not that chaotic is bad, per se, but, chaotic just doesn't play well with others.

 

[Oofta]

One the of the best bits in 4e was "Unaligned". To me, that was a fantastic addition to the game.

The whole caricature of chaotics will always lie is no different than saying all evils must kill everyone they see. It's a poor interpretation of the alignment.

However, the notion that a bunch of Chaotics will get together and be able to cooperate long enough to build a society is a bit too much for me. Any long term (as in generations long) society has to lean strongly on lawful concepts - the passing of power from one person to the next is a major element, just for a start.

I can see chaotics working in small, family groups. But a Chaotic good nation? I just never could wrap my head around it. Chaotic Evil? Sure, no problem. There's no shortage of despots in history. But a nation which eschews formal laws but still manages to persist over generations? Just not going to happen.

It's not that chaotic is bad, per se, but, chaotic just doesn't play well with others.

With very large groups you probably need more codified rules and laws, but I completely disagree when it comes to relatively small units. Just because you're chaotic doesn't mean you can't form bonds or see the benefit of making sacrifices for the group any more than evil people killing babies at the drop of the hat. Many functional tribal societies that would never be considered "lawful" have thrived for millennia, and it it's probably the norm for hunter-gatherer peoples. Well, assuming you apply something as over-simplified as an alignment system to real people.

 

[Hussar]

With very large groups you probably need more codified rules and laws, but I completely disagree when it comes to relatively small units. Just because you're chaotic doesn't mean you can't form bonds or see the benefit of making sacrifices for the group any more than evil people killing babies at the drop of the hat. Many functional tribal societies that would never be considered "lawful" have thrived for millennia, and it it's probably the norm for hunter-gatherer peoples. Well, assuming you apply something as over-simplified as an alignment system to real people.

I think we're in agreement here. My fourth paragraph:

I can see chaotics working in small, family groups.

says pretty much the same as you - tribal societies, which are small, family groups. Rarely much larger than a couple of hundred people anyway. Certainly hunter-gatherer people are covered under the umbrella of "small, family groups".

So, yes, I pretty much agree with you.

My beef is with the notion of, say, the grand elven nations that persist for thousands of years. Then again, elves, as portrayed in most settings, aren't particularly chaotic at all.

 

[Iry]

Brownies.

Imagine the countless troubled homes and hearths when the Brownies get upset. Food spoils, the cobbler finds all his nails on the floor each morning, the kingdom's gold has been turned back into straw, rats are in the pantry, the hearthfire puts itself out the moment anyone looks away, pottery is cracked, castle walls are painted with sap and mud, and not a single piece of clothing stays patched or darned overnight.

Kingdoms fall when brownies get pissed.

 

[Oofta]

Brownies.

Imagine the countless troubled homes and hearths when the Brownies get upset. Food spoils, the cobbler finds all his nails on the floor each morning, the kingdom's gold has been turned back into straw, rats are in the pantry, the hearthfire puts itself out the moment anyone looks away, pottery is cracked, castle walls are painted with sap and mud, and not a single piece of clothing stays patched or darned overnight.

Kingdoms fall when brownies get pissed.

For a moment there I was really hungry for some reason.