Goodberries and Eberron

Goodberry Wine might just be a scam. Sure, they do add real goodberries to the mash, but the brewers know that the goodberries disappear after a day and contribute nothing to the taste. The buyers don't know however, and are willing to pay extra for the exclusive "magic" wine.
 

ChaosOS

Explorer
Goodberry wine originated in Five Nations and were made by a small sect of druids. It became popular and expensive as a way to get around the Mournlands lack of healing.

Also Tharashk has always been about prospecting (ECS paragraph on Zolanberg), but finding the veins is only half the battle. That's why they prefer dragonshards, where finding the damn things goes a lot farther.
 

Leatherhead

Possibly a Idiot.
Note that it specifically says prospecting. So they find the resources, but other people exploit them - just like they find the criminals, but other people prosecute them.
It's close enough to question why there isn't any "House Monsanto."
Sure, they don't till the soil or own the deed to the land, but someone could breed a magi-crop and make money off of that.
 

MarkB

Hero
It's close enough to question why there isn't any "House Monsanto."
Sure, they don't till the soil or own the deed to the land, but someone could breed a magi-crop and make money off of that.
True enough. I suspect the main reason is that they'd inevitably gravitate towards the same tensions and controversies as House Vadalis, only slightly less interestingly, so although there's a space for them economically, there isn't so much of one narratively.
 

Chaosmancer

Adventurer
I ran into some similiar thoughts from a different product. One of the side benefits of Matt Colville's Strongholds and Followers for Druid's is that the natural nuts and berries inside their domain act like Goodberries.

Which really opens up some interesting thoughts, some of which can still apply to this, even though it seems we are fairly certain that wide-spread goodberry production isn't possible due to the spell only making 10 berries (which are still cheaper, though likely use similiar properties to the Bead of Nourishment in Xanathars).

Amongst my musings, I've figured that the biggest actual benefit to this is time. As you all have said, unless the caster is doing the work pro-bono a goodberry costs more on the open market than you would normally pay for your two or three meals a day. But, think about how long it takes to cook and eat food. Even with our modern conveinces and freeze dried foods, it is pretty difficult to cook and eat a lunch in 20 to 30 minutes. A "real meal" like dinner can take upwards to an hour. It would be reasonable to assume that if you were cooking and making food for a family in DnD, even at two meals a day, you might be spending two or three hours on food.

Goodberry takes six seconds to cast and six seconds to eat. And covers the same nutritional ground. If it is assumed that 6 hours of sleep, 2 hours of light activity to make it a "Long rest", and a few hours of the day is spent on food... you could potentially uptick the productivity of a populace by introducing Goodberries. Because people aren't spending time on those activities anymore.

I think it would only be 2 hours, and 2 hours for ten workers... might be worth the cost of getting a goodberry cast. Emotionally and socially though, I think it leads to a dark place if it is enforced by a company instead of chosen by a community. But, it makes for some fun Eberron scenarios I bet.
 

Galandris

Explorer
While a flask of goodberry wine can heal a commoner from near-dead to full health (8 HP will do that to you) and contains 5 doses, it cost 250 gp. So, basically, 50 gp for each life-saving draught. Remember a commoner wage is 2 sp a day, on the basis of a medieval-modern workload of 250 workdays he makes 50 gp a year (and must spend nearly all of this on taxes, food, lodging and family expenses). Despite the widespread magic of Eberron, logistic-changing magic is out of reach from most commoners and the purview of the bourgeoisie.

Having a druid cast goodberry to feed the hamlet is a possibilty, but said druid would probably find a much more profitable employment providing goodberries for the local lord so he and his retinue can go hunt dangerous beasts like a boar without too much risk (I was impaled, now is the time to chew some DruidGum (tm) ). I don't see many druid magically feeding peasants in a capitalistic economy.
 

Kurotowa

Adventurer
After thinking about it, there's one convergence of circumstances where Goodberry really shines: feeding a group of up to a few dozen when supplies are short, foraging is impractical, and cookfires might be unwise.

So yes, an expedition into the Mournland is a great example of all three. But so would any trek through hostile and unfamiliar terrain, especially if time is a factor. That's everything from explorers to black ops infiltration. Another case type would be small scale disaster relief. You can't rest your whole food supply on one Druid, but if it's just a matter of feeding a small group of survivors in a remote location until they can be evacuated, Goodberry shines. Finally, Goodberry might be the right fit if you've got the equivalent of an offshore oil rig or polar research station. Somewhere remote and hostile with a small crew to feed, but important enough to budget for the one Magewright or low level Ghallanda caster to cast Goodberry once or twice a day.
 

RSIxidor

Explorer
Are there rules for Goodberry Wine anywhere in the book? Or even a description of what it does or how it's made? All I noticed in my read through of Rising was one or two name checks of it as a thing that exists. Was it detailed more in a previous edition and I've forgotten about it since?
3.5 Eberron The Five Tribes has it as a wine that heals 8 damage, but you can only drink it once a day and get the benefit. I think this is because in 3.5, each character could benefit from up to 8 HP of goodberry healing a day. It also functions normally in the Mournlands (I haven't read the new book, so not sure if they kept that from old editions).

EDIT: Duration of Goodberry was 1 day/level, which still isn't that long even for a level 20, and it also only converted 2d4 worth of berries (doesn't scale with level).

EDIT2: This book doesn't tell us much about how its made, but it seems whatever the process is causes the berries potency to remain longer.
 

tetrasodium

Explorer
3.5 Eberron The Five Tribes has it as a wine that heals 8 damage, but you can only drink it once a day and get the benefit. I think this is because in 3.5, each character could benefit from up to 8 HP of goodberry healing a day. It also functions normally in the Mournlands (I haven't read the new book, so not sure if they kept that from old editions).
There is a table with a d8 worth of fun environmental effects. The only one that explicitly effects healing is this "Healing spells are impeded here. Any spell that re·stores hit points does so as if it were cast at a level one lower than the spell slot expended. A spell cast using a 1 st-level slot restores no hit points. " although a few will effect people trying to cast spells (which obviously includes casting healing spells). They do a great job of being strange and unpredictably scary to PCs.
 

tetrasodium

Explorer
Keith's talked about the Mournland changes - he always wanted the Mournland to be weirder rather than just anti-healing. So, he worked with JC n co to make the weird effects table.
They do a nice job of getting there much better than the healing stuff alone
 
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TiwazTyrsfist

Adventurer
Tangential, but I have always felt that, since Eberron is more developed infrastructure wise than most other settings, that commoners should have more money than in most settings.

We shouldn't be basing them on 10th century peasant farmers, we should be basing them on late 18th early 19th century commoners. There are large cities. People are as likely to be a clerk or a factory worker as they are to be a rural farmer. Freight shipping on the lightning rail and skyships means farmers can ship excess goods to high demand markets (like Sharn).

It's not the 10,000 peasant farmers supporting 20 knights and a king in a castle.
It's a couple hundred farmers with large farms supporting cities of up to half a million.
 

tetrasodium

Explorer
Tangential, but I have always felt that, since Eberron is more developed infrastructure wise than most other settings, that commoners should have more money than in most settings.

We shouldn't be basing them on 10th century peasant farmers, we should be basing them on late 18th early 19th century commoners. There are large cities. People are as likely to be a clerk or a factory worker as they are to be a rural farmer. Freight shipping on the lightning rail and skyships means farmers can ship excess goods to high demand markets (like Sharn).

It's not the 10,000 peasant farmers supporting 20 knights and a king in a castle.
It's a couple hundred farmers with large farms supporting cities of up to half a million.
Indeed, but that Rising 151 Half a million people line is still dramatically lowball. There was a big discussion on it in discord a while back. We know that sharn is roughly manhattan stacked like legos eight times over based on stuff keith has said & the fact that it's a mile high. 1850 Manhattan census had a population of 500k, but the tallest building in the world at the time was only 5 stories from 1797-1885, from 1885-1889 it was ten, then quickly began exploding. At best, that 500k for sharn is only the official count of people who matter (ie "land" owners & such). The current population of manhattan is 1.629 million making the exact number of people in sharn Trivially well above eight to ten million people. Cities that are only "large" like Rekkenmark/Kings Citadel/etc are likely to easily have 500k pop though.


Your probably right on your other points though
 

Galandris

Explorer
Tangential, but I have always felt that, since Eberron is more developed infrastructure wise than most other settings, that commoners should have more money than in most settings.
I don't think the two are necessarily linked. More infrastructure may mean more money overall, but not more money for the commoners...

We shouldn't be basing them on 10th century peasant farmers, we should be basing them on late 18th early 19th century commoners.
19th century commoners, especially factory workers, led more miserable lives than 13th peasants, mostly due to worsening labor conditions and higher population density. Industrialization led to even greater inequalities of wealth than was possible in a mostly rural economy, peaking in Victorian times. And standard of living were at their worst in mid-19th century, despite hugely improved overall GDP.

Did living standards improve during the Industrial Revolution? if you want some illustrations, the height and life expectancy graphs are especially telling...

There are large cities. People are as likely to be a clerk or a factory worker as they are to be a rural farmer. Freight shipping on the lightning rail and skyships means farmers can ship excess goods to high demand markets (like Sharn).
At prohibitive costs save for the elite. Which may be numerous enough to warrant the extensive lightning rail/aerial shipping, but supported by hordes of laborers nonetheless (especially if you want your Sharn gritty).
 

tetrasodium

Explorer
I don't think the two are necessarily linked. More infrastructure may mean more money overall, but not more money for the commoners...



19th century commoners, especially factory workers, led more miserable lives than 13th peasants, mostly due to worsening labor conditions and higher population density. Industrialization led to even greater inequalities of wealth than was possible in a mostly rural economy, peaking in Victorian times. And standard of living were at their worst in mid-19th century, despite hugely improved overall GDP.

Did living standards improve during the Industrial Revolution? if you want some illustrations, the height and life expectancy graphs are especially telling...



At prohibitive costs save for the elite. Which may be numerous enough to warrant the extensive lightning rail/aerial shipping, but supported by hordes of laborers nonetheless (especially if you want your Sharn gritty).
I don't entirely agree or disagree, but there are some important points that dramatically modify things. Some f those are on the labor side, others on the creature comforts.

@ChaosOS mentioned labor conditions earlier & he couldn't have been more understated when he simply said that eberron needs a labor revolution. With regard to treatment of labor, Eberron no doubt has labor conditions in some segments of the economy that make the worst disposable slave labor sweatshops we have ever had look gentle. Worker safety was a huge concern for labor during the industrial revolution, but it would barely register in eberron with the availability of prostetic limbs far beyond even today's bleeding edge tech& herbal/magical medical treatments that likewise eclipse the kind of trauma recovery that even military medical research has yet to even be at a point where eberron's capabilities are on the horizon A prosthetic limb doesn't need to be the perfect replacement combat usable kind. it can be a much cheaper one that just works well enough to stop the screamer from bleeding & get them back to work. Beatings are/were common & they could be even more severe given magic & magewright healing. The 8hourx5day workweek (rather than 12 or 16+ hour 6 day) was on of the big wins of the industrial revolution; but toss in something like an enchanted bedroll that lets someone get 8 hours sleep in 4 or less & your looking at an 18-20 hour workday easily. Under those conditions today's suicide nets seem like positively quaint old news because of course factories install a featherfall wardnet around the building do as not to waste time replacing trained workers who try leaping off, plus that way the old shift can just go up & leap without traffic jams as the new shift makes their way in/up.

On the other side of the coin though, Eberron has (or should have) a lot of things soon if not already available* that were not available until the early/mid 1900s. Magic equivalent indoor plumbing, electric fans, centrail ac/heat not supplied by opening a window or lighting a fire, things we would recognize as modern kitchen appliances, food preserving self prestidigitated ice/cold boxes, etc,,, ot to mention stuff like a stable banking system, affordable theater productions, ample supply of soap, etc. Yea that day off is going to be few & brutally far apart, but it's going to be a different standard of living than in something like FR or Ravenloft & in a lot of ways even greyhawk.

The lowest tiers of society however are going to make the poorest beggar in waterdeep look like a king in some ways

* Being available doesn't mean they are cheap, that magehand fan might be a week's pay
 

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