Grab rules

[Kzach]

So, for the first time in running dozens of games, someone decided to grab an opponent.

The rules seem to indicate that the person can, with a free hand, grab an opponent, and then sustain the grab in the following round with a minor action, and still use his other hand to make a regular attack.

Is there something I'm missing here? That seems like a pretty powerful combination for just a non-power ability.

 

[Saeviomagy]

So, for the first time in running dozens of games, someone decided to grab an opponent.

The rules seem to indicate that the person can, with a free hand, grab an opponent, and then sustain the grab in the following round with a minor action, and still use his other hand to make a regular attack.

Is there something I'm missing here? That seems like a pretty powerful combination for just a non-power ability.

Grab requires an attack roll and a standard action. The attack roll doesn't get magic bonuses, weapon proficiencies or anything else.

Escaping a grab requires a skill check vs a defense and a move action. You can even choose between two skill check/defense pairs. There's a very high chance that the grabee will escape after spending a single move action, leaving him ahead on the action stakes.

Additionally if anything slides, pushes, teleports or pulls either party away from the other, the grab ends.

The only result of continuing to grab someone is that they are immobilized, which isn't all that powerful. They can still just hit you or anyone else they can reach, still threaten etc etc.

It's a weak tactic except in very, niche cases. Weakening it further would make it completely worthless.

 

[chitzk0i]

Grab requires an attack roll and a standard action. The attack roll doesn't get magic bonuses, weapon proficiencies or anything else.

Well, it's versus reflex, but yeah.

To the OP: The rub is that most PCs don't go around fighting in melee with free hand. Most of them use it for a two-handed weapon or a shield.

 

[EP]

It can have its uses. We played a one-shot where the villain was an undead powered by an orb of negative energy that also weakened us. The only way we were able to injure him was a companion shaman's power to inflict damage if the target moved. So I grabbed him and forced him to move a square, doing automatic damage.

We've also used it before for a squirmy goblin who wouldn't stand still. Warden grabs him and the rest of us start beating on him.

 

[On Puget Sound]

We had a situation where all the players were tied up, at exactly bloodied HP, weaponless and awaiting sacrifice to Yeenoghu (after what would have been a TPK, except that the gnolls wanted the intruders' deaths to be pleasing to their god).

So after the barbarian broke his bonds, I allowed a grab attack (enduring an OA) followed by an opposed strength check to take the spear from the nearest gnoll. It worked fine. (Don't ask now it turned out; we had to quit in mid-combat and it very well might still be a TPK; we won't know for two weeks).

 

[Mithreinmaethor]

It can have its uses. We played a one-shot where the villain was an undead powered by an orb of negative energy that also weakened us. The only way we were able to injure him was a companion shaman's power to inflict damage if the target moved. So I grabbed him and forced him to move a square, doing automatic damage.

We've also used it before for a squirmy goblin who wouldn't stand still. Warden grabs him and the rest of us start beating on him.

I am not sure what Shaman power you are referring to, but if it is the At-will one that allows an Opportunity attack if the enemy moves away from the spirit companion, it would not have worked in this instance. Forced movement does not provoke opportunity actions, which that shaman power is.

 

[N0Man]

Well, it's versus reflex, but yeah.

To the OP: The rub is that most PCs don't go around fighting in melee with free hand. Most of them use it for a two-handed weapon or a shield.

A shield can be dropped (free action) or stowed (minor action), as could a two-handed weapon or second weapon.

Also, a two-handed weapon may require two hands to use it as a weapon, but you can still hold it with one hand (and not be able to attack with it, unless your DM allows you to use it as an improvised weapon)

 

[Mithreinmaethor]

A shield can be dropped (free action) or stowed (minor action), as could a two-handed weapon or second weapon.

Also, a two-handed weapon may require two hands to use it as a weapon, but you can still hold it with one hand (and not be able to attack with it, unless your DM allows you to use it as an improvised weapon)

A light shield can be dropped as a free action. It takes a standard action to unequip a heavy shield.

 

[BruntFCA]

I think grab is exists more for the monsters than for the players.

Great use for the lives of your minions

 

[abyssaldeath]

A shield can be dropped (free action) or stowed (minor action), as could a two-handed weapon or second weapon.

Stowing a shield is most definitely a standard action. There are no rules about dropping a shield, only stowing.

A light shield can be dropped as a free action. It takes a standard action to unequip a heavy shield.

There is no such rule about light shield.

Both shield types are strapped to your arm. So, dropping a shield is not like dropping a weapon(which is a free action). I would sat that since sheathing a weapon is a minor action and stowing a shield is a stander action, I would say dropping a shield would be a move action or at the very least a minor action.