Grade the Pathfinder 2E Game System

[MichaelSomething]

I know my shift to wanting lighter systems is new, I still love 4e.

But as others have mentioned, the difference between 4e and P2 seems to be ... generosity to the players? P2 nickel and dimes you to death with feats and an overly prescriptive action economy. 4e PCs feel like they're good to go right at 1st level, never felt that with my P2 experience.

Yet common complaints against 4E were that level one characters were too developed and that 4E spoiled players with powers?

I guess it a "be careful what you wish for" scerienco?

 

[Velderan]

(record scratch) Huh? I don't think I've heard this one before....I've never played PF2E. What's the deal?

As people have stated, the game heavily uses feats to provide abilities. You get an ancestry feat at 1st, 5th, 9th, 13th, and 17th level. Here is an example of all the feats for an elf and what level you get to pick from them. Here is what an elf looks like by default, so basically you get low-light vision without using a feat. No resistance to sleep/charm, no bonuses to using bows, etc. It doesn't bother me, but I also like having to make choices while playing and developing my character. That clearly isn't for everyone.

Edit: I should probably note you get more abilities from your heritage.

 

[CleverNickName]

As people have stated, the game heavily uses feats to provide abilities. You get an ancestry feat at 1st, 5th, 9th, 13th, and 17th level. Here is an example of all the feats for an elf and what level you get to pick from them. Here is what an elf looks like by default, so basically you get low-light vision without using a feat. No resistance to sleep/charm, no bonuses to using bows, etc. It doesn't bother me, but I also like having to make choices while playing and developing my character. That clearly isn't for everyone.

Yikes...there are 42 feats, some of them linked to others, just for the Elf ancestry alone!

So Pathfinder2E characters are essentially multiclassed at 1st level, and their ancestry is class? That's an interesting idea (I'm not mad about it...I miss Race-As-Class from the old days) but yeah, I can see how that would be frustrating for the player. "No, I can't climb that tree....I'm not Elf enough yet." Eew.

 

[Parmandur]

Yikes...there are 42 feats, some of them linked to others, just for the Elf ancestry alone!

So Pathfinder2E characters are essentially multiclassed at 1st level, and their ancestry is class? That's an interesting idea (I'm not mad about it...I miss Race-As-Class from the old days) but yeah, I can see how that would be frustrating for the player. "No, I can't climb that tree....I'm not Elf enough yet." Eew.

It's more like the game is point-buy with Feats being the unit of trade.

 

[Velderan]

Yikes...there are 42 feats, some of them linked to others, just for the Elf ancestry alone!

It seems like a lot if you look at it all at once, but beyond 1st level it narrows down quite a bit since some feats have prerequisites and others just wouldn't make sense for the class you're playing. The biggest issue for folks that play in-person using books is finding everything. Using the elf ancestry feat example I provided, some are in the Core Rulebook, some are in the Advanced Player's Guide, and others are in various Lost Omens books. That's definitely an issue the Remaster books need to address when they rebalance what's in Player Core 1 and Player Core 2.

 

[CleverNickName]

It's more like the game is point-buy with Feats being the unit of trade.

And the point-buy is spread out across several levels, instead of all-at-once, right? Because most of the ancestry feats aren't available until after 1st level? (I can't imagine that is just an "elf thang.")

 

[payn]

Yikes...there are 42 feats, some of them linked to others, just for the Elf ancestry alone!

So Pathfinder2E characters are essentially multiclassed at 1st level, and their ancestry is class? That's an interesting idea (I'm not mad about it...I miss Race-As-Class from the old days) but yeah, I can see how that would be frustrating for the player. "No, I can't climb that tree....I'm not Elf enough yet." Eew.

No, they are not essentially multiclassed ever even if you do multiclassing. Now that I got that out of my system, the amount of feats is deciving. Each level up you choose a single feat from a list of about 2-5 feats. Its very silo'd and manageable dont let the full list fool you.

 

[CleverNickName]

No, they are not essentially multiclassed ever even if you do multiclassing. Now that I got that out of my system, the amount of feats is deciving. Each level up you choose a single feat from a list of about 2-5 feats. Its very silo'd and manageable dont let the full list fool you.

Whew, that's a relief. So it's more like "choose this feat tree to be a wood elf, and choose this other tree to be a shadow elf"?

There are a lot more feats, and different types of feats, than I remember. How many feats does a typical PF2E character end up getting by, say, 10th level? Does it vary by ancestry and class, like it did back in PF1E?

Sorry if my questions are getting annoying; I'm genuinely interested.

 

[Vael]

Whew, that's a relief.

That said, this is why I'd never attempt to make a P2 character without an app. The core rulebook can be used to anchor oneself during a hurricane or bludgeon someone to death.

 

[Velderan]

Whew, that's a relief.

Quickly looking over the elf feats, at level 5 in theory there's 8 options to choose from but 2 require you to have picked a certain feat at 1st level and 1 requires you to be an expert in stealth. At 9th level, you have 6 to pick from, with 3 having some form of prerequisite. 13 has 4 feats, with 3 having a prerequisite and 17 only has a single feat. It's easy to get decision paralysis if you look at everything all at once, but once you narrow down what's actually an option it's pretty easy to pick from based on what your character concept is.