Grappling rules & beholders

[hong]

Regarding eye rays. While grappling the only weapons a creature can use are unarmed strike, natural weapon, or light weapon. It can be argued in either way but if I were a DM, I do not allow someone to use ranged touch attacks while grappling.

Note that the eye rays are not "weapons", any more than casting a stilled inflict wounds spell is a "weapon".

 

[Stalker0]

It seems simple enough, if the barb is holding on to the beholder, he's not going anywhere. The beholder tries to fly to the left, the barb pulls him back to the right. The beholder tries to fly up, the barb pulls him down. Its the nature of grappling.

 

[Shin Okada]

Note that the eye rays are not "weapons", any more than casting a stilled inflict wounds spell is a "weapon".

Actually, strictly speaking, there is no definition of the word "weapon" in the core rule.

I think a casting of Inflict Spell itself is not a weapon or something. But the touch attack itself is an attack and the hand which delivers it is a weapon.

In case of Beholder, an eye stalk which shoots a ray is a ranged weapon IMHO.

 

[the Jester]

In case of Beholder, an eye stalk which shoots a ray is a ranged weapon IMHO.

Ah, but it certainly qualifies as a natural weapon, n'est-ce pas?

 

[Shin Okada]

Ah, but it certainly qualifies as a natural weapon, n'est-ce pas?

I see. It seems you are right about this. And I can't find any rule which prevent one from using ranged weapon in grapple if that weapon is a legal one (natural weapon or light weapon).

Also, a rule regarding ranged attack does not say anything about preventing one to shoot the same square which the attacker is in.

 

[Nail]

Bump!

(This one's too silly to let slide!)

Come on, guys: the beholder can still fly while being grappled (given a carrying capacity), as it's flight does not depend on a set of limbs.

Moreover, the grappler has NO leverage, as he's on a floating beach ball, and not in contact with the ground. Nor does he have a mode of fight himself. What is he using to conteract being flown up?

A: Nothing. The grappler is hosed.

 

[RigaMortus]

Isn't there a weight limit on Levitate? Maybe use that as a basis? Even so, if the beholder is encumbered, he can't move regardless, right? If a Wizard was way over encumbered, he couldn't Fly, so why is this any different?

 

[Artoomis]

Isn't there a weight limit on Levitate? Maybe use that as a basis? Even so, if the beholder is encumbered, he can't move regardless, right? If a Wizard was way over encumbered, he couldn't Fly, so why is this any different?

Agreed - or at least I agree that the Beholder cannot fly with that much weight on him. Mind you, I think it's suicidal to leap on top of a Beholder like this since it's eye rays can still target you (at least three of them, anyway), so that's three possible save-or-die effects each round.

 

[Nail]

I don't suppose the grappler would be considered "above" the beholder....and thus subject to all of the eye ray attacks?

 

[Old Gumphrey]

Not to mention the extreme point-blank range...how can the eye ray miss you if you're holding on to it for a handlebar?