D&D 5E Greater Invis and Stealth checks, how do you rule it?

[Oofta]

It being automatic is not a rule and regardless this leads to laughably absurd outcomes. If you want everone in your setting to be Daredevil and have a radar sense you can do that. I wouldn't.

Even a rogue's blindsense only has a range of 10 ft.

Which, come to think of it is a clear contradiction of the supposed "default" assumption. If you always know where every invisible creature is, there would be no need to specify "or invisible".

Blindsense​

Starting at 14th level, if you are able to hear, you are aware of the location of any hidden or invisible creature within 10 feet of you.​

​

 

[Flamestrike]

We are dealing with sequential initiative, like it or not.

Which is not reflective of the in game reality.

Maybe in your game world some weird time stop descends on combatants when violence breaks out and everyone moves like they're pawns in a chess game, but not in mine.

The monk is CHOOSONG to leave hiding and make an attack and then run away.

Good for him.

But for the six or so seconds he CHOOSES to do this and not Hide, then he is not hidden.

And for that six or so seconds, enemy combatants can pursue him, attack him or whatever (subject to the invisible condition).

If he wants to be hidden he can CHOOSE to hide.

Until he does so, unless there are exceptional circumstances that warrant him being hidden, he's invisible and his location isn't known with any level of precision, but some attacks can be made against him at disadvantage

There are no exceptional circumstances here. The RAW and RAI is clear and thsts how I run it in my games.

Now you can choose to run it your own way. Good for you. Just don't try and tell me the way you do it is what is intended. Its clearly not

 

[Xetheral]

A plain reading of the Hiding sidebar in Chapter 7 suggests otherwise. But of course the DM can override. A blinded character in my game isn't Daredevil, but the character's ears still presumably work and that's sufficient in D&D 5e to notice someone else who isn't taking measures to be quiet. Said someone else still has advantage to attack the blinded character and the blinded character suffers disadvantage when attacking them.

From my standpoint, the continual debates over invisibility and hiding--starting from the beginning of the edition and continuing unabated until now--are strong evidence that there is no single "plain" reading of the sidebar in Chapter 7.

At some point, evidence of divergent readings constitutes evidence of ambiguity. Given the level of continuous debate on this topic, I think we're far, far past that point.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

A plain reading of the Hiding sidebar in Chapter 7 suggests otherwise. But of course the DM can override. A blinded character in my game isn't Daredevil, but the character's ears still presumably work and that's sufficient in D&D 5e to notice someone else who isn't taking measures to be quiet. Said someone else still has advantage to attack the blinded character and the blinded character suffers disadvantage when attacking them.

'Notice' is not same than 'know location'. You can hear noises thus noticing that someone is nearby without knowing where they are.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

From my standpoint, the continual debates over invisibility and hiding--starting from the beginning of the edition and continuing unabated until now--are strong evidence that there is no single "plain" reading of the sidebar in Chapter 7.

At some point, evidence of divergent readings constitutes evidence of ambiguity. Given the level of continuous debate on this topic, I think we're far, far past that point.

Very true.

 

[iserith]

From my standpoint, the continual debates over invisibility and hiding--starting from the beginning of the edition and continuing unabated until now--are strong evidence that there is no single "plain" reading of the sidebar in Chapter 7.

At some point, evidence of divergent readings constitutes evidence of ambiguity. Given the level of continuous debate on this topic, I think we're far, far past that point.

It looks more to me like some people valuing simulation of reality over the simple rules that can be overridden from time to time when it makes sense to do so. And that's fine. But the rules seem very clear to me.

 

[iserith]

'Notice' is not same than 'know location'. You can hear noises thus noticing that someone is nearby without knowing where they are.

According to the rules, you know what 5-foot square they are in if they aren't hidden. A creature isn't hidden if they can be clearly seen or heard. You're free to override those rules if you want to. I do not.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

According to the rules, you know what 5-foot square they are in if they aren't hidden.

Could you quote the rule that says that?

 

[Maxperson]

According to the rules, you know what 5-foot square they are in if they aren't hidden. A creature isn't hidden if they can be clearly seen or heard. You're free to override those rules if you want to. I do not.

So if you have 6 giants banging metal swords on metal shields and shouting war cries, while their war elephant steeds a trumpeting. They will hear the invisible wizard in robes who is standing still?

 

[iserith]

Could you quote the rule that says that?

It looks to me like the rules related to this have been quoted repeatedly in this thread, but you're just not having it. I don't see what quoting them again will accomplish. I've told you what I do. You've said what you do. There's nothing more to say.