D&D 5E [GUIDE] NADRIGOL's Melee Bladesinger Guide

Any plans for doing a magical item section for this guide? I know the default assumption of 5E D&D is 'no magical items', but the hardcover books and Adventurer's League has them in abundance. And the fact that playing Tales of the Yawning Portal has gotten my Bladesinger a Flametongue shortsword, a Tome of Clear Thought, a Tome of the Stilled Tongue (!), and Boots of Elvenkind makes me think that this situation isn't as uncommon as people think.
 

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(Note: I think Astral Projection should be rated much, much higher than it is. If you can make your way from the Astral Plane to the material plane -- and because you're a high-level wizard, YOU CAN -- it's completely safe adventuring with no reduction in effectiveness. RAW, you can even use it to gain multiple copies of consumables. So load up your arrows and shortswords with wyvern poison, boys, it's own the spoot out of the adventure time!)

Wish is an awesome spell. And the most awesome thing about it is getting to poach spells from other lists. This is less of a concern for wizards than it is for classes like the Bard and Sorcerer, since they already get most of the best spells, but versatility is everything.

Animal Shapes: So you have a wight commander with 10+ zombies under their command. How would you like to have a wight commander plus 10 ankylosaurses instead? Can also be used to completely pwn an enemy army in war scenes by replacing all of the soldiers with elephants.

Find Steed: Normally, you wouldn't bother with this spell. However, note the clause "Any spell that only targets only you also target your steed". You know what that means to me? That means another token out on the field casting Eyebite and maybe even Sunbeam. Or another Contingency if you're into that. Slap some False Life or (better) some Aid action to make it more durable.

Glibness: Not the best use of the spell in the world, but it's there. You probably dumped Charisma and don't have proficiency in a charisma skill, but a Cha-8 bladesinger with the relevant proficiency can expect at least a 21 result in a check. Much (much, MUCH) better backed up with some True Polymorph action, of course.

Hero's Feast: Would normally be an underwhelming use of a 9th-level spell slot, but the fact that the benefits last for 24 hours means that you can rest, recover the spell slot, and still have about 15-16 hours left of the effect... if you budget the proper time for it. All that and it's free, to boot.

Simulacrum: You already have this spell, but the best part about being able to use it out of a wish is that A.) it's instant B.) it doesn't need snow or costly spell components, and C.) because it's instant, you can target what you're fighting, with no restrictions on hit dice or challenge rating unlike True Polymorph. Using regular Simulacrum on a Dawn Titan is very difficult. Using a Wish Simulacrum on the same Dawn Titan is not.

Symbol: The typical 1-minute casting time is a killer, but there's a reason why people will still use spells like Banishment and Maze to set this bad boy up. Casting it as an action makes it the best crowd control option in the game. Concentration-less, ally-safe, multiple-stat targeting save-or-sucks that lasts for however long you want AND forces a save every round? Next to free simulacrums, this is definitely the best option for Wish.
 

Contingency is an amazing spell... if you use it correctly. You have loads of great options and the best thing is that it lasts for quite a few days, making it easy on the spell slots. As a Bladesinger, you're incentivized to use the spell in ways that don't occur to most wizards, such as for Haste or Blink. The biggest thing that should be on your mind should be whether you're using Contingency for offense or using it for defense. Generally, using it for defense is stronger but speed is everything to a wizard gish. So if the idea of being immune to at least one attack doesn't float your boat, you can still use it to get a jump on the damage race.

Note that you can also use Contingency to fast-cast buffs in the middle of an extended workday. This generally isn't the best use for the spell (except for Otiluke's Resilient Sphere, see below) but when you're at very high level and you have 4 to 6 6th+ level spell slots to play with it's worth considering. Just another thing to consider if you're, say, thinking of taking two levels of Fighter for Action Surge.

Bigby's Hand: Like telekinesis, it can be used to fast-casting an offensive spell. Use the initial hand to, again, push you out of the way of an oncoming attack. Once you do so, you can use the hand on different rounds to do something else. It's safer than telekinesis since it won't restrain you if it works. Another way it's better than Telekinesis: it will only require a bonus action to control on subsequent rounds. Unless you really see yourself wanting to use telekinesis for something, this is a better choice.

Blink: See the notes on Mirror Image. Note that while Blink provides a perfect defense (unlike Mirror Image) it's not reactive. But it's not concentration-duration, so that's nice.

Blur: There's pretty much no reason to use this spell over Greater Invisibility. A situation that won't work for Greater Invis won't work for Blur. Maybe if you're using Contingency to fast-buff in the middle of a work day and want to conserve 4th-level spell slots.

Dimension Door: Very versatile. The obvious use is to dodge out of the way of an enemy's attack, but it can also be used in a pinch for extra movement if things go south such as a surprise near-TPK or being trapped in rubble or an enemy putting up a Wall of Force. Note that a strict wording of the spell makes it so that even though Contingency doesn't normally target additional people, the effect of taking someone along with you happens after the spell goes off. If your DM agrees to that interpretation, you can use Dimension Door to cover someone else's butt, too. Like, say, dodging dragon's breath. Sky blue if your DM will let you use the spell to dodge being affected with targeted effects and/or save another party member's bacon.

Dispel Magic: If you're fighting a lot of spellcasters who do evil things like trapping you in stone and dropping Contagions on you, you can use it as a backup when Counterspell doesn't get you the goods.

Fire Shield: Not the best choice in the world, as you shouldn't be getting hit that often in the first place, but it is concentration-free. Use it for concentration-free defense when you know you're going to fight dragons (freeing up your reaction for Shield and Song of Defense), though the duration on the base spell is long enough that you probably don't need to do this.

Gaseous Form: While it comes with a load of defensive benefits (advantage on three saves, gets you out of bindings, some small flight, resistance to nonmagical damage) the two big problems with this spell are its concentration duration and its inability to let you attack. The thing that saves this spell from complete uselessness as far as contingency is concerned is its concentration duration, meaning that you can drop concentration as soon as your turn comes.

Greater Invis: Great choice. Gives you loads of defense, especially if you stick to ranged attacks, and gives you advantage to boot. Depending on how your DM interprets things, this could even prevent you from being targeted by certain spells. The only thing is that it requires concentration, otherwise it'd be gold.

Haste: Another great choice. Have it pop up when you're barely hit for a free miss, or even a Dex save if you're feeling really lucky. It's also a prime target to use for fast-buffing. Sky Blue, maybe even gold, if you're a Bladesinger who likes to use two-weapon fighting.

Melf's Minute Meteors: If you upcast this spell to level 5, you get 20d6 worth of meteors spread out over a minimum of 5 rounds, 4d6 a round. Normally wouldn't be worth considering, but note this spell isn't concentration. So you can use it as an offense booster that won't interfere with your other concentration spells. A very decent alternative to fighting with two weapons.

Mirror Image: While fairly low level, Mirror Image is considered a top choice because it doesn't require concentration AND applies immediately. You'll never go wrong with using the spell like this, but it'll rarely be the best choice.

Otiluke's Resilient Sphere: This is THE perfect defense you want. And we do mean everything. It'll even block spells if you set the contingency correctly. In addition to working on everything, if the situation is particularly bad you can hold it up for several rounds while you do something like cast non-concentration buffs. The only problem is that it will break any previously held concentration, but that's a small price to pay for this kind of defense. Unless you're using Contingency for offense with Bigby's Hand, Melf's Minute Meteors, Haste, or Greater Invis this should be your default pick.

Polymorph: Surprisingly, this isn't a very good pick. Your concentration bonus will tank when using this spell, so unlike Otiluke's Resilient Sphere it may only be good for one attack despite the huge number of extra hit points. It's better than that spell for its duration and for getting you out of trouble that Resilient Sphere couldn't (such as being teleported into the middle of the ocean) so if you want defense as opposed to a mixture of defense/offense/all-around utility pick that one instead.

Stoneskin: For a concentration spell, it's not the best choice in the world. You're mainly using it for its ability to persist through several combats. It's better if you're fighting against a lot of high-accuracy/high-damage monsters like giants or dragons.

Telekinesis: A legal, but rogue choice. The idea is that you target yourself with telekinesis and then in subsequent rounds use it on someone else. This works out to an extra fifth level spell slot. If you're creative, you can use it defensively like Misty Step or Dimension Door to throw yourself out of the way of an attack (with a very good chance of it working, due to your low strength). Do note that targeting yourself on the first round will restrain yourself for at least one round if you win the check. Generally best to stick to Bigby's Hand, unless you really like this spell.

True Seeing: A decently useful, if very situational, pick for Contingency when used in certain circumstances. True Seeing is a lifesaver when you really need it, but the problem is its mere hour-long duration and 5th level spell slot. Throwing it out when you know you'll need it saves you on spell slots, spells prepared, and time.
 

1st-Level Spell Mastery Picks:
Shield: Why are you considering anything else? The only reasons why you would is if A) your DM never does more than one or two encounters per long rest or B) you are using your reaction almost every round for something else. Even then, it would just be a 'very good' instead of a 'downright mandatory' choice. Don't even consider the other first-level options unless that applies or you're one of those Robes of the Archmagi + Staff of Power + Tome of Clear Thought/Manual of Quickness of Action + Bracers of Defense cheesemonkeys.

Absorb Elements: If for some reason you can't or you won't use Shield, you can use this instead. Not that it's a bad choice, but unless you're fighting wizards and dragons for the rest of the campaign (plausible considering your level) you won't use it enough to justify not just sticking it in a regular spell slot and upcasting as necessary.

Expeditious Retreat: Or you could use Misty Step instead. The only reason why you wouldn't is if you're using your 2nd-level slot for something else OR you plan to be moving a lot, don't need concentration, and still want to cast non-cantrip spells.

Fog Cloud: You could do worse than having constant deployable cloud cover for your party to move through. Since it's concentration you can drop concentration and put it up again so you don't constantly bump into walls. Or have someone who can see through it lead the way.

Longstrider: Hey, everyone in the party constantly moves at +10 feet from now on, concentration-free.

Unseen Servant: This is generally going to be a mediocre choice... unless you have a lot of good items that require actions to use. Such as applying poison to arrows or weapons.

Protection from Evil and Good: This is probably the only spell for Spell Mastery you'd consider using over Shield, but only in the sense that you'd compare Spider-Man's strength to The Hulk. At this level, this spell will protect you from 80% of the things you'd worry about with the unfortunate exception of dragons. But charm, fright, and possession protection is very, VERY strong. The material component cost of 25 gp a pop will probably prevent you from just going around all day with it up, but it does last decently long and can be cast on other people.

2nd-level Spell Mastery Picks:
Alter Self: Be the person with constantly shifting faces and disguises? Always have a way to breathe underwater? Probably not.

Blur: More and more things will have truesight and blindsight at this level. And it'll eat into your concentration slots. Mirror Image will probably serve you better in the long run.

Detect Thoughts: If you're always in dungeon-crawling environments, you can use it to get some free intel. For the most part, I'd pass.

Flaming Sphere: Not the worst choice in the world. You get some free damage on rounds you otherwise can't use your bonus action. Best use for this spell is to always have a platform for Pyrotechnics.

Invisibility: An acceptable choice. Always good for stealth, but you can also use it to ensure you (generally) gain first-round attack advantage. And always being able to hide will come in more handy than you'd think.

Levitate: Not a bad choice at all. Levitate is always a fine option for a long-term save-or-die and having constant not-quite-flight so long as you're near a ceiling or wall is more useful than you'd think.

Locate Object: Depending on how your DM defines 'object' and the table's tolerance for playing Twenty Questions you can use it to guess monster setups, treasure locations, soforth. It's a VERY wide range and being able to detect, say, spellcasters by the existence of arcane focuses/material component pouches or dragon locations through leftover eggshells. Again, it's a great choice if your DM will tolerate your filibusters, otherwise pass on it.

Mirror Image: Mirror Image is kind of dicey as a long-term defensive vanguard due to the increase in monster accuracy, but it works GREAT when you can constantly re-apply it and have it up for situations where you can't Bladesing, such as ambush situations.

Misty Step: Excellent choice and probably the default one. Always-on teleportation isn't just good for mobility, but it will get you out of so many scrapes as a high-level character. That -1 to strength saves and checks will barely bother you anymore. It's not as completely, utterly dominating like Shield is but you need a good argument to use something else.
 

Mighty_K

First Post
Hm... what I don't understand in the last part ist about the EK18/BS2 called George.
You write "He did this to get spells like Haste just a little bit sooner." and in the calculations George starts getting Hasted numbers at lvl 11 (EK9/BS2).
But how Multiclassing works he is delaying access to higher level spells. He still can take haste at EK 14 the earliest (because it is not a abjuration or evocation spell) and for George that means character lvl 16.

With Haste out of the window, things look different for George. Especially TWF doesn't make sense now. (Which "saves" us 2 feats, so we start to raise dex at lvl 6+8)

No, what you do is take the dueling style, grab a Rapier and do 6.5 damage per hit with it. At lvl 9 you got DEX 20 and War Magic. You do (6,5+5)+4,5+9+(6,5+5)=36,5 (BB) or (6,5+5)+4,5+4,5+3+(6,5+5)= 35 (GFB) damage At that level, Brutus does 38 with GFB and Alexander does 25.5, although with Haste on he can raise this to 39.

I think the difference is much smaller now and George has his lvl 1 feat open and takes his ASIs earlier.

George has DEX 20 at lvl 8.
Alexander still has DEX 16 at that level and only reaches DEX 20 at lvl 13. A pretty big difference.

At lvl 9, against AC 16, George needs a 8 (60%), Alex needs a 9 (55%) comparing their Damage like this shows: Alex, 55% of 39 = 21.45, George, 60% of 36.5 = 21.9 damage. George wins out.

And George still has that lvl 1 feat and will get more feats all in all ...


So, all in all, I think it is not that clear cut!
 

NADRIGOL

Explorer
Hey everyone! Just wanted to acknowledge that I haven't replied to this thread in several months. Work and my personal life have pulled me away from D&D for quite some time. I definitely won't be making replies any time soon to the majority of posts here, but it looks like you're hashing things out amongst yourselves pretty well. I might drop a few replies to things I find particularly intriguing or argumentative. Thanks Rofel for your recent contributions to the thread. If I get back to editing the guide at some point, I'll see about working them in in some capacity.
 

NADRIGOL

Explorer
Hm... what I don't understand in the last part ist about the EK18/BS2 called George.
You write "He did this to get spells like Haste just a little bit sooner." and in the calculations George starts getting Hasted numbers at lvl 11 (EK9/BS2).
But how Multiclassing works he is delaying access to higher level spells. He still can take haste at EK 14 the earliest (because it is not a abjuration or evocation spell) and for George that means character lvl 16.

If you read the multiclass section on spellcasting in PHB 164/165 you will see that at lvl 11 George gains his first lvl 3 spell slots (spellcaster level 5 = 2[BS2] + 3[EK9/3]). The EK section on spells known on PHB 75 states that a) "spells you learn at 8th... level can come from any school of magic." b) "Whenever you gain a level in this class, you can replace one of your wizard spells you know with another spell... of a level for which you have spell slots, and it must be abjuration or evocation... unless you're replacing the spell you gained at 8th... level". So reaching lvl 11 George hits his 9th EK level, gains a third level spell slot, and swaps out his non abj/evo spell from EK8 with Haste.

With Haste out of the window,

With this assumption in play, I won't comment specifically on the rest of your post. If I have the time, and can get my head back into the intricacies of my spreadsheet, I might someday experiment with giving George Duelling and a Rapier. But in my opinion, considering the ratings I allotted them in my summary:

EK1/BS19 - 7/10 Melee and 9/10 Spellcasting
EK20/BS0 - 10/10 Melee and 3/10 Spellcasting
EK2/BS18 - 7/10 Melee and 4/10 Spellcasting

Even if Duelling Rapier George pans out and has an average damage potential that matches/exceeds Alexander, and you bump George to an 8 or 9 melee (9 or 10 seems high when compared to Brutus), Alexander still has vastly superior spellcasting potential. The guide IS about playing an aggressive melee oriented striker, but having "highly-defensive full caster" as a fall back plan is tough to argue with, and George has no such plan, only an extra 2HP per level to stick with his melee plans.
 

NADRIGOL

Explorer
Nadrigol, what does a typical combat look like for you? I ask because I'm interested in playing a Bladesinger, but it seems to me that you would spend the first two rounds casting buffs on yourself (Mirror Image and whatever concentration spell you feel like).

I think this ends up depending a lot on your DM's style, and the type of campaign you're playing. I found myself in situations where it was fairly easy to predict combat (when the party is doing the stalking/infiltration, heard voices through the door, DM does a seemingly pointless scene description ;) ). In these situations your biggest challenge is predicting the threat level and spending an appropriate number of spell slots. In less favorable circumstances, it's still often possible to justify a surprise round, or scream "Mirror Image!" so quickly cutting off the DM's description of the enemy that your character becomes known for his trigger finger. Otherwise, yeah, you probably only want to cast a single buff spell before entering combat (or none if you think your AC is enough). Depending on your party comp, and how well you communicated that you're playing a striker and not a controller, you might also be lucky enough to receive buff(s) from someone else first round.
 

niklinna

satisfied?
In the multiclassing section, you mentioning giving up 2 spellbook spells per wizard level foregone. Well, you can copy spells into your spellbook any time if you have the cash, so really you're just giving up money. Now, prepared spells is another matter.
 

Broken One

Explorer
Hoi there,

I'm playing in a 5th level party at the moment. We went through Lost Mine of Phandelver and are at the beginning of Princes of the Apocalypse now. Some people want to change characters and I'm also considering it to replace our wizard. I loved bladesinger since AD&D but I'm not that deep into 5th Edition. The builds given in the guides floating around are understandable but my question is about some magic items the party has lying around and some flavor things.

So we have lying around some "Gauntlets of Ogre Power" that even our last mage used. This would open up quiet some more weapons to me. The question is if using this is really worth it or if it makes me to dependable on this attuned item. If I use those bracers which would be some go to weapons to aim for?

We have also things like:
Staff of Spider which has some charges and +1d6 poison damage

and

+1 Mace with 1d6 radiant damage.

Other things I'm thinking about, more for the flaver and less for the power is going as Shadar-kai (I guess my DM would still let me start with DEX and INT 16, we use point-buy). I liked the flaver of the Bladesinger sidebar namely Raven Bladesingers fighting with a Warpick sounds cool, at least flavorful and I guess I would be more intrestend playing the depressed/driven Shadar-kai instead of the classic elf. But if I see this correct most of the one handed martial weapons like the warpick or even other stuff is not that great in comparison to a rapier or the long sword what every elf can use.

So with those magic items availabe and my flavor idea what would you consider me to build and how to start of with my level 5 Bladesinger?
 

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