Half-elves........why no one chooses them?

[billd91]

I think the half elf in 3E mainly suffers from a lack of flavor. He's part elf. He's part human. He's relatively little on his own. Major advantages of their relatives are kind of diluted and that gives the race a kind of diluted feel.

I think both the half-elf and half-orc could benefit from more unique, minor flavor abilities. The half-elf goes farther in this regard than the half-orc, but it still isn't enough to give the race distinction.

 

[Seeten]

I disagree strongly with your assertions. Low-Light vision isnt worth anything close to a feat.

Humans are MORE than capable of being played intelligently, and using cover and corners to make the mad half-elf bowman into a guy standing around doing nothing. Further, thats so situational as to be comical. What if the same dungeon has torch brackets every 8 feet? While I guess the human just beats him down then.

All else being equal, as opposed to tactical genius in the perfect situation v utter moron, all else being equal, half-elves are weak mechanically.

To be quite serious, I am sure I could play a race with a -4 on every stat and still make a character that wasnt "useless". That does not make the race good, nor does it make it desirable. It makes it terrible, but playable.

The fact that half-elves remain playable does not make them any better mechanically, and it still puts them at or near the very bottom of the LA +0 ladder, right above Kobolds, who are pure awfulness. At least Kobolds have the "Treated as a Dragon" effect tacked on...lol, nvm, still awful. Dazzled in bright light in addition. The hits just keep coming. And thats the only race, offhand, I personally consider worse than half-elf.

I'm a big fan of diplomacy, too. Half-Elves are still worthless. IMO. YMMV =)

 

[Ranger REG]

... or for concept.

That's about it

-Hyp.

For me, it's concept and nostalgia. Been playing half-elf since 1e.

 

[IanB]

I'd argue that goblins are probably worse than half-elves too.

Of the by now hundreds of characters that have seen even a little play in the various games I've played in since 3E was released, the only half-elves I can ever remember seeing are either characters converted from previous editions or NPCs.

I don't play with a terribly powergaming-oriented group of players, so if even they're not picking half elves, there seems to be an issue. I think humans are just a far more attractive buy. Giving half-elves the extra skill points might make it a more even call.

Another alternative is to write cross-species fertility out of your game.

 

[KarinsDad]

I disagree strongly with your assertions. Low-Light vision isnt worth anything close to a feat.

It is outdoors at night. It is worth a lot more if you can see your opponents, but they cannot see you.

Humans are MORE than capable of being played intelligently, and using cover and corners to make the mad half-elf bowman into a guy standing around doing nothing. Further, thats so situational as to be comical. What if the same dungeon has torch brackets every 8 feet? While I guess the human just beats him down then.

No, the human has a slight edge in a feat. For example, he might have taken Weapon Focus and be +1 to hit.

Basically, there are two situations in the game: lit areas and unlit areas. They occur more or less with the same frequency because many dungeons do not have lit torch brackets every 8 feet. A Temple or Keep might, but a Crypt probably will not.

Does that mean the human is better? Rarely. They are about the same. Some situations favor one, some the other.

The human (with the extra weapon focus feat) gets +1 to hit every swing, but the half elf makes Enchantment saving throws, Listen, Spot, and Search checks more often. The half elf can also have adventuring situations where he is 2+Dex of opponent to hit with a missile weapon (i.e. half elf is in the dark, he gets +2 to hit and his opponent loses his Dex, and if he is a Rogue, the half elf gets Sneak Attack damage).

Even the +1 to skill points doesn't really help a lot overall.

All else being equal, as opposed to tactical genius in the perfect situation v utter moron, all else being equal, half-elves are weak mechanically.

This is a totally false assertation. A half elf can kill an opponent just like any other race character can. They are not weak. They are different. And there is often a major difference between what a player thinks about the strength of the race and what can actually be done with the race.

Having one feat fewer often means little in the overall scheme of things. A half elf wizard can fireball just like a human wizard. Chances are, the human wizard did not take Empower Spell at first level.

A single feat is nice, but it is rarely game breaking. Otherwise, Fighters would rule the game at all levels.

For example, +1 to hit with Weapon Focus at low level will generally do damage one combat in three or more where damage would not have occurred otherwise. In many combats, the feat does not make a single difference. And at higher levels, the class abilities quickly outshine the racial abilities.

So what if a 10th level Human has a few more skill points and a feat? It means little because he has 15 or more abilities overall and the feat is just a minor aspect of the overall character. By mid level, a single feat tends to be white noise when compared to the overall power and versatility of a character.

 

[IanB]

So what if a 10th level Human has a few more skill points and a feat? It means little because he has 15 or more abilities overall and the feat is just a minor aspect of the overall character. By mid level, a single feat tends to be white noise when compared to the overall power and versatility of a character.

Don't overlook the massive advantage the human has in meeting prestige class prerequisites.

 

[Seeten]

The race with -4 to all stats can also fireball just like a half elf. I guess giving that race low light vision makes it all ok.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

Suffice to say I completely disagree with you.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I have to agree with Seeten here in that claiming that a race's advantage is minor in the grand scheme of things (as in picking Weapon Focus for the human's feat and then trivialising it) is a slippery slope indeed. I could use the same argument to justify taking away the LA from every LA +1 race. After all, the Aasimar's bonuses don't stop humans and halflings from throwing a fireball just like an Aasimar. In fact, if the human took a feat to improve his casting, he may throw it even better than the Aasimar.

 

[BadMojo]

Don't overlook the massive advantage the human has in meeting prestige class prerequisites.

Except for the ones that have Elf or Half-Elf as prerequisites.

Anyway, I can honestly say that I've never felt compelled to play a half elf for anything other than roleplaying reasons. Nothing about the race calls to my inner power gamer.

 

[Mycanid]

I agree with the idea that most play half elves game wise for a "concept character". I have played half elves (recently had a psion/soulknife/ranger and last 1e I played was a cleric/magic user), but much prefer the elves as a race. Interestingly, the recent half elf was a definite character concept whereas the 1e was not ... I just chose half elf for the heck of it.

But then, I'm NOT a power gamer. Never have been.