Handling a large group?

[cougent]

Some of this may be repeats from other posts.

While running the RTTTOEE campaign my group grew to 16. I really did not want 16 players, but also did not want to tell anybody to go away, so I did a few things to handle the group.

1) I brought in a coDM to handle combat.

2) PC's had 30 seconds measured by an egg timer to act, otherwise they were considered to have held action and given one more chance at the end of the round.

3) No books! Either your character knows it or not, no looking up stuff in the middle of combat. At first this may sound harsh, but if they have time before play to prep for this it is really not a big deal.

4) while player crosstalk is often funny and a major part of the fun of the game, it can get out of hand. Especially with many players, so just keep it to a minimum. After 1 or 2 jokes or quips interject with "and meanwhile the Beholder, gellatenous cube, vampire, and androshpinx are advancing on the party" (actually just something to redirect attention back to the game)

5) Use the 1 initiative per combat alternative rule.

6) Generate roles for monsters in advance and put them on a scratch off list.

7) Predraw or map difficult to describe areas for the players. Nothing will kill the fun faster than spending 20 minutes trying to describe and draw a complex room before you ever get to monsters and combat.

8) Just before extended combat, take a break! Whether food, drink, smoke, RR, whatever just get everyone up and move around prior to the 2 hour massive battle.

9) I am not a fan of railroading, but encouraging the party to go the right way with guard patrols, wandering monsters, or just plain extra sounds or footprints that lead the right way as an option is sometimes a good idea with that many players, If they ignore the hints and go the wrong way anyway, let them go, even to their doom.

10) Communicate with yur players that while they are playing their roles, you are juggling their roles, plus NPC's, plus monsters, plus maps, plus everything else and that it may get a bit tricky. My players were very understanding and knew that my "off the cuff" response to keep things moving might not be totally RAW, but that I was not out to screw them over.

It is not especially easy, but it can be done as long as everyone is there to have fun.

 

[kigmatzomat]

I'm a big-group DM. My current group is actually the smallest game I've ever ran, having only 6-7 players plus myself. My normal is more like 8-10 with a 3-yr campaign that averaged 12 players (peaked at 16).

table rules:
1) table time. If I give each player 30 seconds to do their actions, there's 4-6 minutes between actions for players. Therefore players get ~10 seconds to declare their action before I tell them "your character hesitates" and go to the next character on the rotation. Then I come back to the hesitator and see if they have a clue yet.

2) Game combat time management. Remember how long a round is. When the bard tries to recite the "Charge of the Light Brigade" cut him off after 6 seconds. Make sure people don't saddle a horse in one round. The trick is to say "fine, you spend the next 15 rounds getting the saddle on" so that they know it's going to take forever and you can essentially skip them this fight. If they decide to change actions refer to item 1.

3) Non-combat game time management. The easiest way I've found to handle a lot of out-of-combat actions is to get people's plan for the day. Inevitably people will cluster together, in at least 2s and 3s. As DM you can also induce clustering by having the weaponsmiths located near the blacksmiths and the corrals, so that multiple loners' activities are in the same general locale.
Then remember how long it takes to get places on foot. Even on horseback, plan on spending 2-3 hours getting to the other side of a big city, given traffic congestion plus finding the place. That tends to limit errands to 2-3 per person, per day.
Tell people how long they'll spend in transit in the beginning and then start with the people who will arrive first. that way if a fight breaks out, you have an idea of who is where at the time (very important if the cleric casts Status in the mornings).
Roleplay the first 2-3 minutes of an encounter and then, if at all possible, switch to die rolls. Figure out how diplomatic, perceptive, etc. the characters are as well as what they intended to do then sum up the encounter on the whole. "Method Actor" roleplayers may get in a snit. If so tell them that they will have to wait until a coke/smoke break or after the game to handle their monologue.

5) Manage the spotlight. Some people don't want to be the center of attention, others crave it like the crack pipe. The trick is to make sure that everyone gets a chance to be the focus before the addicts run wild. And know that at a certain point, it's time to say enough is enough. My favorite phrase is "and a good time was had by all."

6) die rolling. People with lots of attacks can roll during other players actions. I trust 95% of the gamers I've played with. The other 5% are given a "minder" who takes an active interest in the suspect players' die rolls. "Oooh, a 2, that sucks dude!" Die-fudgers either give it up or are booted from the game.

7) no take-backs. Mistakes happen on both sides. If someone forgets the bardic song bonus or to declare Dodge, too bad. As a DM I often run very large combats with dozens of NPCs. Forgetting things happens on both sides of the screen so it's a wash.

 

[James Heard]

I don't often run a game where there aren't at least 9 people, and most of the stuff here is all good advice so I'm going to repeat some of it:

Cliffhangers: When players split up always try to leave the action at a dramatic precipice. I can't stress it enough: When the time comes around for the players to do their thing again they should have been sweating it out the whole time chomping at the bit to strut their stuff or see what's next. Since combat takes a while with a large group, I often stop play entirely right beforehand (so the next session can open with combat) or else take a 5-15min break so the players can talk it over and get a handle on things. If the combat is especially long or complex, I've sometimes even taken breaks between rounds (and not just for the players, managing the NPCs intelligently can be a drag too)

Rules Lawyers Are Your Friend: Yes, they can sometimes be annoying - but the guy who knows exactly which rule is where and who can reliably tell the other players (and you) "you're doing it wrong" is awesome with a lot of players to juggle. Don't let them push you into an argument, but lean on them heavily. We've played games where the players were enlisted to stat up traps and encounters (roughly outlined) between games.

Talk to your Players Between Games: In person or on the phone, asking how the game is going between sessions isn't just fishing for compliments or dishing out clues. Rather than railroading the players, just asking them all what they think is going on can reap great benefits in planning out what exactly you need to have ready for them the next session. Again, you can enlist players to help you sometimes, especially with subplots.

Your game is only going as well as the least interested player's interest: When you have this many people, they're going to compete for face time. Some of them will be better at it than others: Don't let it happen. Encourage the other players and yourself to involve the guy or gal whose only contribution to the game is to call out numbers they're reading off the dice, because frankly the more people who have interesting things to contribute to the game the less of the work you have to produce to entertain everyone yourself.

Encourage players to take notes for you: You're going to make up things on the fly, right? Giving out a little bit of XP or cards with bits of combat bonuses for doing your notetaking for you is like having an extra set of hands, and everything you do in a large games should be mindful of getting other people to do work for you.

Treasure: Keep a running tally of what you've given out as treasure from day one and you won't be sorry. It's a scary bit of accounting sometimes, but keeping a list allows you to figure out if you're over or under the expected wealth charts, perform audits (because it's not all that hard sometimes for one item to become two in a large party as different players think they own something), etc. Do the same with XP and you'll have a neat little document that you can hand to the players to do that nasty bit of auditing for you (for XP, of course). Trust me, players will scrutinize other player's character sheets with a lot more of an eye for detail than you will most of the time.

Dice: Sometimes when I'm running a large game I even have to borrow dice for when I actually need to make a roll that the players shouldn't see, or else (if I can convince them to do it) I bring my own set of extra extra large dice and make everyone use them. Let the players roll their own dice. Let them roll for the monsters. You've got a lot to do with managing the combat (which should almost always have a horde of mooks in the wings to make sure that everyone has something to attack and so that combats don't end up "a bunch of adventurers gang up on the bad guy and kill him"), why spend it rolling dice?

 

[Shadow64]

Thanks everyone for the continued advice! I'm saving it all up to unleash on my group to get everything running smoothly.

My wife says this all sounds like a part time job - I keep telling her that it's only a part time job to get the machine started and running, after that it should get a lot easier!

 

[James Heard]

That's exactly so really, once you've got your players trained and knowing what you expect from them (at least the way I do things), it's really no more challenging than running a game for a smaller number of players - except if three people can't make it for game night you still have plenty of people to carry on and play.

 

[Thunderfoot]

I've probably responded to this question about 14 times.

I'm currently running a group of about 12 that has been together for 4 years now. There are three very important tips that will keep you from going bat crap bonkers should you continue:

1. Proper planning precludes poor performance. IOW - DON'T try to do everything on the fly. There are many DMs that can run an entire campaign out of their head, with more than 6 players, none of them can do it well. That doesn't mean you can't be spontaneous, just have a lot of 'extras' or 'just in case' scenarios hanging around.

2. Get a player to help marshal the rules as a player (not referee) watch rolls, help move minis, or whatever else you find helps to keep the game moving - even taking over initiative and time keeping. We have found that spell cards cut down spell preparation by players by about 15 minutes per encounter, I highly suggest it. Also initiative cards keep things moving alng. The 'battle board' or whatever its called from Paizo is a great tool normally, but is useless for really large parties - it actually causes more problems than it fixes.

3. GET HELP!!! I do not run my campaign alone, there are two DMs and we run things in tandem. While one runs the planned encounter, the other answers rules questions, keeps an eye on player activities, and can give you someone to script NPC interactions with (really dolls up roleplay). Also, it helps to ease burnout, they have ideas and tricks and so do you, divide and conquer (the work, not the party ... although...) and you'll find things run smoother. Also, it gives you a chance to lead the storyline in ways you wouldn't have dreamed of on your own. By way of example, my fellow DM and I get together a couple of time between sessions and talk with notebooks in hand. We talk about character actions and their repercussions, NPCs and their interactions, plot possibilities, mapping, etc. What you will find is that eventually if youcontinue to go it alone you will end up railroading the party more and more as you run out of ideas and options. Also, if individual characters decide on doing things outside of the party or the party decides to split, you have a second DM to keep the action moving. It really helps if the other person has a completely different DMing style than you do too, that way each of you can focus on separate aspects and divide that labor even more efficiently.

Other things that are helpful - don't play often, but play for long periods. We arrange sleepovers for the night prior to take care of an adiministrata that may need to be taken care of and so that when start time comes, its time to play and no one is late (for the most part). I don't suggest playing all-nighters because eventually you will crash mentally if not physically, but if everyone has rested well the night before, breakfast and dungeoneering go well and ends in dungeons and dinner.

Also, if you hit a snag, let the players know. Tell them you screwed up and then fix the problem. The system is built for 4-6 players, the CR list doesn't scale well, so if you have 8 players, double your monsters, don't increase the CR - it doesn't work, trust me.
More over, have fun and build an epic world. The original campaigns were written for 6 - 13 characters, why can't modern ones be as well.

Hope this helps,
Happy gaming!

 

[Shadow64]

3. GET HELP!!! I do not run my campaign alone, there are two DMs and we run things in tandem. While one runs the planned encounter, the other answers rules questions, keeps an eye on player activities, and can give you someone to script NPC interactions with (really dolls up roleplay).

Sounds interesting - do either of you maintain a PC in the game while dm'ing, or is it really a tag team thing that one handles combat for a game and the other handles the NPC / non-combat stuff, and neither of you play?

 

[kigmatzomat]

One trick I do before the game is to have players make a dozen rolls for me and fill out a quick reference sheet. I pass around a sheet of paper with a grid on it and have the players fill out the row next to their PC/cohort name. Then I start at the other end of the table with a different sheet with their characters and vital stats (HP, AC, touch ac, flat footed AC, saves, search, spot, listen, move silently, hide, diplomacy, sense motive, bluff, etc).

When I need "secret" rolls from the NPCs and players I pull it off those sheets. NPCs are pulled from the pre-rolls vertically, PCs horizontally. That encourages honesty b/c a fudged 20 can go to an enemy but so can a 1.

Works well in a lot of social encounters as I find the NPCs and PCs bluff/sense/diplomacy without a single die roll on my part. I can say "The druid finds the merchant smarmy but the fighter finds him to be a charming friend" and then expect the players to RP appropriately based on their die rolls.

In combat, or rather immediately prior to combat in the ambush period, there are no warning die rolls, just me flipping back and forth between my notes saying "hmmm." it adds to the stress of the moment if they don't know how well their sneaking is going or if their opponent is a master ninja with the hiding.

 

[cougent]

One trick I do before the game is to have players make a dozen rolls for me and fill out a quick reference sheet. I pass around a sheet of paper with a grid on it and have the players fill out the row next to their PC/cohort name. Then I start at the other end of the table with a different sheet with their characters and vital stats (HP, AC, touch ac, flat footed AC, saves, search, spot, listen, move silently, hide, diplomacy, sense motive, bluff, etc).

When I need "secret" rolls from the NPCs and players I pull it off those sheets. NPCs are pulled from the pre-rolls vertically, PCs horizontally. That encourages honesty b/c a fudged 20 can go to an enemy but so can a 1.

Works well in a lot of social encounters as I find the NPCs and PCs bluff/sense/diplomacy without a single die roll on my part. I can say "The druid finds the merchant smarmy but the fighter finds him to be a charming friend" and then expect the players to RP appropriately based on their die rolls.

In combat, or rather immediately prior to combat in the ambush period, there are no warning die rolls, just me flipping back and forth between my notes saying "hmmm." it adds to the stress of the moment if they don't know how well their sneaking is going or if their opponent is a master ninja with the hiding.

I like this!
I have used player cards and rolled for them for secret doors, traps and such but this does seem like a better method.
Consider it officially "borrowed"!

 

[frankthedm]

Really big groups;

Arrange seating. If you are doing the 'Take 10' on init, use that order. Otherwise try and seperate those who get clique-y.

Mooks, lots of mooks, even when they stop giving XP, keep flooding them out. Print up formations of mooks as counters as needed, if you don't have enough minis.

Terrrain, terrain, terrian! Lots of it, make as many battlefields 3D as possible. Make sure some can be destroyed for effect so even if no foe is available the player feels like he still got to DO something.