D&D 5E Has 5E Restored or Diminished Your Faith in WotC?


My take: I have less faith in WotC's ability to stand by a product, try to improve it, and to try to nurture the fanbase. For better or worse, they have given up, pulled products from the queue, and said "we're cutting our losses with this piece of junk (4e)."

Admin here. Hey, it's fine to offer your opinion but please avoid edition war-ry language. "Piece of junk" sounds like it's designed to make people angry and start arguments, and that's not something we want to put up with. Thanks. PM me with any questions. -- Piratecat

They are listening to other companies' customers (chief among them Paizo) more than their own (those who currently play 4e). If this trend continues, who's to say that they won't change 5e again to appeal to Goodman Games' customers or those from other hobby games (Warhammer)?

From what I've read, the design goal is to take the game back to pre-3.x. I've already got those books, and retroclones exist that are cheaper.

Between Pathfinder, retroclones, and this debacle, I think I've finally realized that I don't need WotC to play D&D.

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It's a company that sometimes has things for sale that I like. The designers they've hired have made some things in the past I like.

But I haven't seen what they've made this time -- since it hasn't been built yet.

There's no faith to lose or gain really. What matter is if I like the new thng they plan on trying to sell.


First Post
Diminished. They didn't learn from the total failure that was 4E launch and are doing it all over again.

Alienating fans, zipping their lips on the details, not reaching out to internet fans, etc.

Keefe the Thief

Let's see...

Did you lose faith in Wotc completely? Wotc, did the faith you had in them get lost? This faith, that you had in Wotc, where did it go? What is the negative status of your faithbased relation to Wotc?

Well, i don't know about you, but i lost my faith in Wotc completely. Their affronts to gamers are an affront to gamers..."

I am not very good at this, am i?

the Jester

Neither. Everything I've heard about DnDN is encouraging, but that doesn't mean anything; everything I heard about Tron: Legacy was encouraging too, but I still found it disappointing. So I'm reserving judgment.

Also, until we see them really drop the 4e support, let's not assume that they're dropping 4e support, eh?


First Post
I don't do faith. But the impressions I've had from the playtests and seminars have been warm enough to keep my optimism bubbling.

the Jester

It hasn't dropped as in ended. But this month's Dungeon features three articles, only one of which is alleged to be a humungous adventure.

Inserted a slight adjustment to your statement. ;)

Though I'm not currently a DDI subscriber, from what I hear the Giants modules are huge and pretty much fill up as much space as three smaller adventures; while I would prefer every issue of Dungeon have a low, mid and high-level adventure (hi Paizo!), even in the Paizo days there were a few exceptions (Castle Maure, IIRC, was an issue-filler on its own).


They are listening to other companies' customers (chief among them Paizo) more than their own (those who currently play 4e).

While I certainly understand your concern I really think you miss the mark here. Despite the crowing going on the Paizo Cult and 3E fans aren't getting their "way" either with what we've seen so far. It's the 1E/2E fans that WotC hasn't made a dime from that they're really pursuing.

WotC may have shot themselves in the foot to an extent with the OGL but they have DDi and such for a revenue stream from those who stay with 4E. If the integrate some e-tools for the 3E crowd they may somewhat keep a revenue stream that way too. But those really old school players, they're playing a game WotC bought and holds the rights too without ever halping WotC recoup those costs or profit. That's certainly something WotC wants to change.


First Post
Whatever... They are likely stopping to cater to me, and starting to cater to others. It's fine. I had a good run with 4e for as long as it lasted. I'll probably figure out something else to do when support for 4e ends. I'm good for another year and a half at least. Then, if my friends want to play the next iteration, I might do that, or I'll be happy with Savage Worlds or whatever else we end up playing.

It sounds like they are taking away choice. In 4e, it's fairly easy for me to realize a character concept, with very few restrictions. I would rather have seen them take that a step further, and build a system where you could realize any concept. Alas, they are going back to cliches and straight jackets. It's probably not going to be my cup of tea, and I'll either hack it to pieces and turn it into something that works for me, or more likely find another system that can do what I want.

Either way, it is what it is. I don't put faith in companies, so nothing restored or diminished. I do put faith in people and I didn't think the leadership for D&D would be going in this direction, so I'm a little disappointed personally, but they're apparently doing right by a lot of other folks, so more power to them.


I'm not sure if 'faith' is the right word, but my reaction roll to WotC marginally improved when 5e was announced, and improved considerably with the announcement of the 1st Ed reprints.

Since DDXP, I've been feeling very 'flat' about the whole thing - I think that initial enthusiasm has waned. Basically, at this point I feel that they really need to get that playtest going, urgently.


First Post
They can't restore or diminish my faith, since there is no product. Aside from a select group of players who are bound by NDA, we have no real information. Just hints.

Not enough to make a decision on.

WotC did a lot of damage to my respect for them with 4E. 5E will either leave me with Pathfinder, and realizing the game is continuing to move in a direction I'm not interested in, or it'll evolve into something that gets me excited about playing again.

Given that the people trying it all seem to be bound by NDA, I'm not really believing the whole idea that they're doing things differently this time. Paizo openly made the evolving rules available for view at different points during the development process.

WotC still doesn't seem to be doing this, so I frankly don't believe them that they've learned their lesson.

The only thing that's giving me any faith is that Monte Cook is involved, and I tend to like a lot of what he does.

The last 3 years have been the first time I've gone without playing D&D (as supported by TSR then WotC) since....1986 or 87, when I first started playing.

Calling players like us "other company's customers" is rather disingeneous. WotC came out with an edition many of us didn't like, and we voted with our wallets. Why should we feel that, to be D&D fans we have to buy an edition of the game that we don't like? We're still D&D fans. That hasn't changed. I think that WotC has realized something went wrong with their last edition, and they're trying to fix it.



Restored. They are making unheard of effort to re-engage with the fanbase, are not dissing a previous edition when working on a new one. All good from my point of view.

and they've brought back monte cook, who was a big part of the success (in my eyes, anyway) of 3e.

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