D&D 5E Has 5E Restored or Diminished Your Faith in WotC?

My take: I have less faith in WotC's ability to stand by a product, try to improve it, and to try to nurture the fanbase. For better or worse, they have given up, pulled products from the queue, and said "we're cutting our losses with this piece of junk (4e)."

They are listening to other companies' customers (chief among them Paizo) more than their own (those who currently play 4e). If this trend continues, who's to say that they won't change 5e again to appeal to Goodman Games' customers or those from other hobby games (Warhammer)?

From what I've read, the design goal is to take the game back to pre-3.x. I've already got those books, and retroclones exist that are cheaper.

Between Pathfinder, retroclones, and this debacle, I think I've finally realized that I don't need WotC to play D&D.


I think one thing to consider, yes 4e fans are their customers, but most pathfinderplayers used to be WOTC customers. They lost a good chunk of the market and are trying to win it back. But as your post shows, they could just lose more of the market if they arent careful.

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I don't need "faith" in WotC. They'll put out a product. I'll like it, or not. No need for faith there.
I don't agree; I think people like to have faith in a company. It hearkens back to the earliest notions of consumerism. Putting your faith (lowercase "f") in a company feels good, it establishes a bond. It says "I enjoy/depend reliably on this product." Whether it's frivolous (D&D), a necessity (FORD or CHRYSLER, etc.) or absolutely critical to your very life (MERCK or PFIZER), "faith" in a thing gives people a sense of grounding. In the cases of pure consumer goods, it makes spending money on the item a little easier.

If WIZARDS OF THE COAST was plowing ahead with 4e as is, no changes, no announcement of a new edition that listens to older editions as well as recreates itself, and had announced the re-printing of the core AD&D books, I doubt if I'd buy them. My attitude would be entirely different. But that they're now willing to listen to me as a customer again shows that they're worth considering again as a company I'll buy things from - that little "f" faith shows its face!

Or, if it is more palatable: I consider it rewarding good behavior. And their behavior this go 'round is very, very good indeed.


First Post
I found myself showing less interest in Wizards of the Coast and their products when I found that 4th Edition was not really a fit for me. I now find myself show more (much more if truth be told) interest in them the more I learn about 5th Edition. They have no more obligation to make products I like then I have to buy their products I don't.

Faith never entered into the equation.


First Post
Eh, can't say I'm all that pleased. It's way too soon for a new edition--4e has a lot of life left, especially on the heels of Essentials. And the early snippets of 5e sound like the designers didn't care for any of the advances made in 4e (from the refined skill system, the way combat and utility powers were silo'd, or that spellcasters can do something cool every round). That old-school vibe is nice, but I don't want nostalgia winning over sound gameplay.

But 5e is motivated by Hasbro's internal profit expectations for the hobby, so its unfair to hold too much ire against WotC. Part of me will be happy if they can keep D&D afloat, even if I don't care for its next incarnation.

EDIT: Also, if there's one saving grace, it's the open playtests. That's the right way to go.
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So far, it has restored my--not faith in, so much as sense of connection with, certain people at WotC, especially Mike Mearls.

Playing Iron Heroes made me think of Mearls as a guy who saw gaming fundamentally the way I do, such that I would likely "connect" on a gut level with games of his design. Iron Heroes had a lot of flaws, but underneath it all was a feeling of "Yeah--this is what I'm looking for." That feeling was somewhat undercut by his association with 4E, which I felt had a great deal more polish than Iron Heroes, but far less soul. However, since Mearls actually took the helm of D&D, that feeling has been coming back. Essentials restored a lot of it, and what I've heard about 5E has brought it back even more. I'm very much looking forward to seeing what's ahead for us.

I will add that after reading some of Ryan Dancey's recent posts on the subject, I think I have a better picture of why 4E went the way it did (in short: ultimatum from Hasbro to raise D&D revenue to impossible levels, or have the whole brand put on ice, leading to 4E and DDI as a kind of Hail Mary pass), and I have a lot more sympathy for the folks in charge of the project, who were really in an impossible position. I obviously don't know the internal politics going on in Wizards/Hasbro executive offices, but I get the feeling 5E is not being made under the same kind of "do or die" pressure, which is reassuring.

As far as NDAs and keeping stuff under wraps, come on! Everyone from DDXP says the rules were very rough, clearly an early draft. We've been promised an extensive open playtest. If the playtest proves to be not what we expect, or WotC doesn't seem to be taking our feedback into account, then we can go after them for not being open enough. Right now, however, everything looks fine to me on that front.
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Consonant Dude

First Post
Alienating fans, zipping their lips on the details, not reaching out to internet fans, etc.

Fact: WotC has never been so forthright when releasing an edition. Ever.

Some people will counter by saying "3rd edition" but 3e was two years in the making when fans learned about it and the game was in a much more advanced state. They only started working on DnD Next 9 months ago.

They have also never reached out to fans so openly and inclusively. This will be the largest playtest in the history of DnD.

I fail to see what more they could do.


For my own personal faith in WotC, I'm going to be neutral until I see the printed product in my hands. We'll see, hopefully they will put out something that will be cool or give me ideas at least.


I don't need "faith" in WotC. They'll put out a product. I'll like it, or not. No need for faith there.

My faith in the internet community's ability to read everything in the worst possible light remains undiminished, though.

I gotta spread my XP around, but Umbran put it succinctly, I think.

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