D&D 5E Has 5E Restored or Diminished Your Faith in WotC?

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Neither.

The jury will stay out until the game is released and evaluated.

 

[DEFCON 1]

This could all be because playtest is at such an early stage that they haven't even thought about how to introduce the layers of customization they are speaking of, maybe they are just testing some math elements, I don't know. My opinions may change. My current state is just disappointed.

Then why in the heck are you wasting energy worrying about it? If you know that this is an early stage in the process, and you suspect the customization you might like isn't arriving until later... why give ANY emotional energy to the process at all? What's the point? You're intentionally banging your head against a wall, then getting upset you have a headache.

If you can't help but getting emotionally wrapped up in all of this... why don't you just do yourself a favor and not follow along? Just play 4E for another year and a half in ignorant bliss... and then when 5E is released you can worry then whether the game is what you want it to be.

 

[werecorpse]

I like nearly all of what I have heard, so yes faith partially restored.

Btw can someone point the way to more playtest reports ( I have read Mengu's - thanks for the link)

 

[DEFCON 1]

Are you kidding? It's a fricking game company. I have real things to worry about than a bunch of people I don't know, putting together some product I haven't seen, for a game I won't experience for at least another year and a half.

 

[billd91]

It's way too early to tell. I haven't seen what they've done yet. But I will say they've restored some of my optimism with what I'm hearing about 5e.

 

[Mengu]

Then why in the heck are you wasting energy worrying about it? If you know that this is an early stage in the process, and you suspect the customization you might like isn't arriving until later... why give ANY emotional energy to the process at all? What's the point? You're intentionally banging your head against a wall, then getting upset you have a headache.

If you can't help but getting emotionally wrapped up in all of this... why don't you just do yourself a favor and not follow along? Just play 4E for another year and a half in ignorant bliss... and then when 5E is released you can worry then whether the game is what you want it to be.

Yes, sorry, I don't actually worry as much as the internet makes me sound like I worry. Even if I end up hating the end product of the next edition, many more doors will still be open, I can explore other systems, different games, etc. When I said I'm disappointed, I didn't really mean I'm blue, or depressed. It's just my impression after a first look.

 

[BobTheNob]

Neither of the two. Why?

To restore my faith they would have had to have lost it in the first place...they didn't.

Nor has it diminish my faith. I'm quite looking for ward to what they can come up with.

To be honest the only thing in this thread that lost my faith was the OP. FRankly, I expect better than leading, presumptuous threads like this.

In future, please do not make thread designed to auto-flame, and please don't make presumptions as to my perceptions

 

[Feeroper]

Given that the people trying it all seem to be bound by NDA, I'm not really believing the whole idea that they're doing things differently this time. Paizo openly made the evolving rules available for view at different points during the development process.

WotC still doesn't seem to be doing this, so I frankly don't believe them that they've learned their lesson.

....
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Calling players like us "other company's customers" is rather disingeneous. WotC came out with an edition many of us didn't like, and we voted with our wallets. Why should we feel that, to be D&D fans we have to buy an edition of the game that we don't like? We're still D&D fans. That hasn't changed. I think that WotC has realized something went wrong with their last edition, and they're trying to fix it.

Banshee

1st point - Pathfinder was/is a 3.5 retroclone with some minor(ish) changes to it. Im definetly not knocking it as I love PF, but the type of playtest that WoTC is doing here is way different. They are playtesting a 100% brand new system, not a tweaked version of a 5 year old pre-existing ruleset that anyone can get for free with the SRD at any point. The PF playtest was a great idea, but they had the benefit of using a base system that basically 100% of their user base were already familiar and comfortable with. Not to mention the fact that some of the issues folks had with 3.5 were already well documented, so they really had an easy stepping off point when it came time to tweak and adjust.

2nd point - I dont think the poster was trying to say you are not customers of D&D type games, just that you are not WotC customers - you are another comapny's customer. I dont think there is any reason to get defensive about that, its certainly not an insult.

We are all D&D fans, some prefer particular editions or retroclones, but that doesnt mean anyones opinion is less valid because of edition/system preference. Seeing as WoTC's goal is to attract and retain D&D fans of all editions, the playtest is our way to make sure they stick to that, and if they still fail for anyone out there, at least you know you still have your options elsewhere. Just at least wait and see what happens with it, you wont have to buy into it or anything, so you dont have to be worried about being tricked into spending hard earned money on a system you dont care for. I imagine by the time they actually get the first retail book out the door, you'll have a pretty definitive idea as to whether or not D&D Next is for you or not.

 

[Mark CMG]

They are playtesting a 100% brand new system, not a tweaked version of a 5 year old pre-existing ruleset (. . .)

Do you think that WotC is using a 100% new system at this point? That would mean it is already written which would make playtesting and asking for feedback more of a exercise in tweeking. The alternative is that they are trying out a few new rules at a time with a system that is at least four years old, twelve years old, twenty-two years old, or thirty some odd years old. What are the odds it is already 100% written (seemingly a year ahead of its publishing date) with plans to just change some things because of playtesting?

 

[Spinachcat]

I am disappointed that 4e & Gamma World have ended at WotC.

I am looking forward to whoever launches the 4e retroclone company to attempt another Pathfinder snag at the fan base. I hope they do a great job because 4e is tremendous fun.

5e? So far I am deeply unimpressed. I have no interest in a 3e rehash with some nonsense about appeasing 1e fans. But who knows? Maybe the final product will be awesome.

More importantly, there are other RPG companies making cool stuff.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Do you think that WotC is using a 100% new system at this point? That would mean it is already written which would make playtesting and asking for feedback more of a exercise in tweeking. The alternative is that they are trying out a few new rules at a time with a system that is at least four years old, twelve years old, twenty-two years old, or thirty some odd years old. What are the odds it is already 100% written (seemingly a year ahead of its publishing date) with plans to just change some things because of playtesting?

I think the system is basically done but they have alternate pathways it can gi down and room for tweaking. I think the real key will be hw representative their samples of playtesters will be. I think much also depends on how well they sort and listen to feedback.

So far some of the stuff I am hearing sounds good. Other things, like Themes, sounds like innovation for the sake of innovation that lots if people don't need or want in the game.

 

[Umbran]

I think the system is basically done but they have alternate pathways it can gi down and room for tweaking.

Part of this really depends on what we want to call "a system". How much of the game do you need to have to have "the system" done?

The mumblings I have heard from playtesters suggest that there's more than "tweaking" going on. There's still major revamp of subsystems going on - rewrites of skill systems and suchlike. So, maybe I think they're halfway between what you and Mark suggest.

 

[ExploderWizard]

At this point the playtest reports have me interested enough to keep following along to see what develops.

I really fear for the poor paladins. In every report whether real or generated they are being killed or maimed.

 

[KarinsDad]

I really fear for the poor paladins. In every report whether real or generated they are being killed or maimed.

Bummer. They were maimed in 4E. What more can they do to those poor souls?

 

[Bedrockgames]

Part of this really depends on what we want to call "a system". How much of the game do you need to have to have "the system" done?

The mumblings I have heard from playtesters suggest that there's more than "tweaking" going on. There's still major revamp of subsystems going on - rewrites of skill systems and suchlike. So, maybe I think they're halfway between what you and Mark suggest.

It is all speculation but I think they have the basic structure in place and a lot of alternatives they can pull out of the trunk based on playtesting. That doesn't mean tweaking wont have a radical impact on the final product. But i doubt they come to the playtest table these days with vague ideas, or a partial system. They have to have developed subsystems in order to test them after all. So i am not saying they have a complete system set in stone.

 

[Retreater]

Bob the Nob,
WTH, man? How you are interpreting my thoughts about the 5th edition development announcement as a personal affront?
If you don't like threads, ignore them.
Hope you have a nice weekend. Grab a cold (or hot) beverage of choice, play your game of choice, and have some fun.
That's why we're here, right?

 

[Ratinyourwalls]

Listen. I know most of you don't share this opinion but as a 4E fan I'm feeling particularly rubbed raw by WotC. Not only have they ripped off the tablecloth from underneath me by shelving 4E but they have also made me and players like me the butt of many snide jokes and comparisons since the announcement. On top of that they released a horrible MTG set in the same timeline.

So no they haven't exactly restored my faith in them. I'm feeling pretty hurt and betrayed both as a fan of D&D and a fan of MTG.

 

[billd91]

Listen. I know most of you don't share this opinion but as a 4E fan I'm feeling particularly rubbed raw by WotC. Not only have they ripped off the tablecloth from underneath me by shelving 4E but they have also made me and players like me the butt of many snide jokes and comparisons since the announcement. On top of that they released a horrible MTG set in the same timeline.

So no they haven't exactly restored my faith in them. I'm feeling pretty hurt and betrayed both as a fan of D&D and a fan of MTG.

I've been there. I bet you can guess when too. You have my sympathy.

 

[Feeroper]

Do you think that WotC is using a 100% new system at this point? That would mean it is already written which would make playtesting and asking for feedback more of a exercise in tweeking. The alternative is that they are trying out a few new rules at a time with a system that is at least four years old, twelve years old, twenty-two years old, or thirty some odd years old. What are the odds it is already 100% written (seemingly a year ahead of its publishing date) with plans to just change some things because of playtesting?

Sorry - my point was this is a system that hasnt already been commercially available to the general public and universally loved for the past 5 to 8 years.

 

[Ratinyourwalls]

I've been there. I bet you can guess when too. You have my sympathy.

Yeah. Luckily I have an competitive alternative to 5E from the getgo so I don't really need to worry if 5E is for me or not. I <3 Pathfinder as much as I did 4E.