Has anyone ever taken these feats? And why?

[Obryn]

Back when I was playing, in the hoary days before even Martial Power was released, my Elven Cleric took Astral Fire.

Since then... Pretty much everyone in my paragon-level game takes Weapon Focus. It is always good to have damage, and unless there's another feat which makes you better at your job, doing more damage is good. Also, if you can grab a weapliment - and everyone in my game can - it's strictly superior to any of those dual-element feats.

-O

 

[MrMyth]

Your example is actually why those feats would be better. Weapon focus (for example) is part of the weapon damage and would be count in x[W] damage effects, while Sneak Attack is a separate effect and would not be.

That's not actually true. Each [W] is just the actual dice of the weapon itself, and never includes any bonuses from feats, powers, or other sources.

In any case - small bits of damage add up in the long run. Hence, many people take Weapon Focus and similar feats. They aren't really as necessary as many think, but they are certainly an easy choice if nothing else. If you can find enough feats to boost damage, you do start to see a solid difference compared to other characters - but while you've spent 3-4 feats boosting damage, they may have spent them becoming better at various skills, or gaining more defensive abilities, or even just picking up tricks that won't come up often, but will be really good when they do.

 

[Mad Hamish]

My character (an archer ranger) has had Weapon Focus for a long time.

It's a solid feat where you do additional damage without having to fulfil any conditions (other than 'use this weapon')

As an epic level archer ranger it's not uncommon for me to do an extra 9 points of damage in a round with it than I would without (hit 3 times with any of the 3 shot attack powers I've got or hit twice with twin shot and have disruptive strike or Cobra Stance or Surprising Strike up)

If I do that for 2 or 3 rounds that's worth an extra hit by itself for most characters in the group and I don't need prime shot up, I don't need combat advantage, I don't need the target quarried.

 

[Zaran]

My problem with those feats is the fact that weapon using classes only need one feat with no prerequisite but the energy feats are useful to only a small amount of powers with a required stat that the class might not need for anything else. It's almost a no brainer for me to get a weaplement and use Weapon Focus which works for any implement power. If those feats granted an untyped damage bonus instead I could handle the limited use.

 

[LordBill]

I have a paladin that uses a 2handed weapon. Power attack is awesome with a 2hander, combined with Valiant strike. Makes his at will attack very effective.

The astral fire type feats...meh.....not so sexy. Depends on what other feats you want.

 

[Bold or Stupid]

The Cleric in my first campaign took astral fire because all (and I mean all) of her attacks were Fire or Radiant (okay mostly radiant) in a game that involved lots of undead, so it really worked out for her.

 

[mneme]

Weapon Focus/Expertise is great. If Armbands are great, Armbands * 1.5 is even better.

The racial elemental bonuses are typically great (as they often serve as weapon focus and expertise -- or stack on top of both).

The elemental feats are very narrow; you want them with implement users who are nearly always using the same element -- but that's really risky unless you're a sorcerer, and sorcs can use weapon focus. Probably the most likely case for these are genasi blaster wizards who specialize in an element; if they're not going with a weapliment, they can squeeze more damage out by focusing on fire or thunder and taking the appropriate feat. And, actually, Astral Fire's probably a decent pick for laser clerics [at paragon, anyway]; they have the required Charisma and most of they're prayers are Radiant. It's useful that they're there (though it would be a heck of a lot more useful if they didn't have those ludicrous stat requirements, making it even more expensive to not just go with a weapon and get a dragonshard bonus along with access to weapon focus), but you have to be specializing in an element, unable to pick weapon focus, and have the required stats for them to be a good buy; it does happen, but it's rare-ish.

 

[Dan'L]

I've taken Weapon Focus for a fighter, and I've taken Astral Fire for an Avenger.

The Weapon Focus was on an elf fighter with 16 Str, Dex, Wis, and it made a good way to get damage back up to "expected" 18 Str levels.

For the Avenger, I wanted to up the damage since it's a "striker," but that's more from the accuracy of the class over raw damage. I chose Astral Fire over Weapon Focus because I wanted to get the extra damage on some implement attacks as well, and most of my powers had either radiant or fire as a keyword anyway, and I was already meeting the stat pre-reqs due to a multi-class choice I'd made (i.e., Sly Dodge).

-Dan'L

 

[mneme]

*blink* Sly dodge for an Avenger? A worse-than-tertiary stat (that boosts the same defense your mainstat boosts) for a scaling bonus on that same stat? Ok it it works for you, I guess (you really wanted to train Bluff with a multiclass feat?)

 

[CovertOps]

Just a quick comment about power attack (feat). It is unlikely that 1-handed weapons ever benefit from power attack and depending on the DPR gain/loss other feats may be better to take (such as weapon focus or 2-weapon fighting). Make sure you check your character before taking this feat as follows:

Calculate your average damage per swing(preferably use your melee basic attack stats):

[sblock=1d8 + 7 = 11.5 average damage per swing (aDPS) - math]
xdy+z
(y + 1)/2 * x + z = (aDPS)
Example:
1d8 + 7
(8 + 1)/2 * 1 + 7
9/2 * 1 + 7
4.5 * 1 + 7
4.5 + 7
11.5 (aDPS)
[/sblock]
Calculate your chance to hit (I don't have a DMG handy so if someone can look up the AC of a skirmisher that would be awesome):
[sblock=We'll assume a 65% chance to hit base (.65)]
AC = AC of a skirmisher of your level
H = bonus to hit of your MBA

(21 - (AC - H)) * 5%
Example:
(21 - (15 - 7)) * 5%
(21 - 8) * 5%
13 * 5%
.65
[/sblock]
Now create two separate lines using these numbers (example done at heroic using a 2-handed weapon):

Standard:
.65 * 11.5 = 7.475 (aDPR or average damage per round)
Power Attack (subtract .1 from your "to hit" chance and add the power attack damage):
(.65 - .1) * (11.5 + 3)
.55 * 14.5 = 7.975 (DPR)

In this example you gain a net of .5 DPR if you use power attack. If you were using a 1 handed weapon you'd be at .55 * 13.5 = 7.425 (DPR) or a net loss of .25

Encounter powers and Dailies that do more damage suffer even more:

[sblock=Change the above example damage to 2d8 + 7 (2{W}) = 16 (aDPS)]
4.5 * 2 + 7
9 + 7
16
[/sblock]
Standard:
.65 * 16 = 10.4 (aDPR or average damage per round)
Power Attack (subtract .1 from your "to hit" chance and add the power attack damage):
(.65 - .1) * (16 + 3)
.55 * 19 = 10.45 (aDPR) so a net gain of .05 damage (aDPR)

If you increase your base hit chance:
.90 * 11.5 = 10.35 (aDPR) Standard
.80 * 14.5 = 11.60 (aDPR) PA (gain 1.25)
OR
.90 * 16 = 14.4 (aDPR) Standard
.80 * 19 = 15.2 (aDPR) PA (gain .8)

In general the more damage you do or the lower your chance to hit the less likely that you will benefit from power attack.