D&D 4E Hasbro, Greyhawk, and 4E speculation

[Jer]

This thread made me laugh so much - you guys are great! Now I have to add my own 2 cents...

Wizards has been acting funny. Re-acquiring licenses/settings, even ones that they have no intention of supporting or using. And the rumours circulating might be just a bunch of babbling...or they may mean something, but not what everyone thinks. Its the "own it, but not use it" aspect that really sticks out to me.

Do you mean the "reversion of rights" for Ravenloft and Gamma World from Arthaus to Wizards, or is there some other re-acquisition that I haven't heard about? The rights reversion seemed to be less Hasbro/Wizards grabbing the rights back from Arthaus and more Arthaus deciding that the settings weren't making them enough money. Is there more to the story than this, and if so where?

Now, Infogrames/Atari deal for D&D was part of the same package, along with everything else. But there is only one license out of all 17 brands in this deal that has its own specific deal: D&D.
Here are the terms for D&D: Infogrames recieves rights to D&D for "all interactive formats" for another 10 years

Notice the two major differences:
1) the deal for D&D rights is for TEN years, not seven, like everything else.
2) the deal is for "all interactive formats", not for specifically limited formats, like all the others.


You know what that looks like to me?
It looks like Hasbro has squeezed everything they can out of D&D, and its time to get rid of it.

To me, it looks like Infogrames thinks it can make more money over a longer period of time with the D&D brand than it can with the Monopoly or Risk brands. And since Atari/Infogrames is about to release a new Massively-Multiplayer Online RPG fairly soon, I'd imagine they're making sure that they have the terms of their D&D license firmed up before the rollout of the MMORPG (for their own shareholder's benefit, if nothing else).

And why all formats instead of the clearly delineated ones for the other games? Dunno, but I'd speculate that Atari/Infogrames thinks they can do more with D&D than they can with Scrabble. It may also be that Hasbro is going to re-open their internal development for video games and wants to bring their board/card games in-house because those will be easy for their in-house developers to roll out.

And all the setting re-acquisition?...consolidating their IP, cleaning up licensing issues, so they can get rid of it.

But, there's a HUGE licensing issue right there - the online license is locked up for a decade. The online rights have got to be a bigger draw for a buyer than the "Ravenloft" license is, so if you wanted to clean up licensing issues THAT would be the one to clean up. I'd be more concerned if they had yanked the electronic rights away from Atari (especially with the MMORPG rollout coming up), but extending it? That looks like a company with faith in its brand.

And, as someone else mentioned earlier, Hasbro doesn't generally get rid of IP. If they were in financial difficulties, I could see it, but this is a company that doesn't generally create new stuff - they just wait for the nostalgia cycle to swing around again and re-release the same stuff again.

Now, after that's all out of the way, the one doomsday scenario that I COULD see happening goes something like this:

D&D pen-and-paper RPG (for whatever reason) becomes totally unprofitable for Hasbro. The D&D trademark still has value (for CRPGs, MMORPGs, board games, whatever), but the RPG itself becomes unprofitable. Hasbro decides to drop the RPG market altogether but KEEP the brand instead of selling it off. They agree to license the brand out for RPGs, but the price is too high for any RPG company to come up with the money for it and the game "dies" until the nostalgia cycle swings around again and Hasbro can re-release it.

I don't think its likely that this would happen - but hey I think its as likely as anything else I've heard

 

[Dragonblade]

Unless they receive a stupendous offer, Hasbro will NEVER sell D&D. Like Transformers and GI Joes, D&D is an evergreen product.

Even if the RPG division tanks, they'll still be able to make a mint off the video game rights, and other licensing scenarios for years to come. Plus even if the RPG does die, Hasbro lets it lie for a couple years and then gives it a big relaunch.

 

[Pants]

Wait, aren't we supposed to ignore everything Mike Mearls and Charles Ryan say about D&D?

YES, because they're WotC Corporate Drones designed to mislead us with confusing statements such as 'We have no current plans for a new edition!' No current PLANS. Hah. Just means they're going to throw a new edition together without any playtesting! No plans indeed!

I've seen through your +6 digital veil of misleading, Corporate Drones!

[/sarcasm]

 

[dargoth3]

This is interesting, if it is true.
I am certain WotC (and Hasbro) identify FR as part of their base value. If this is true, then WotC will have to continue to publish FR, or forfeit a significant chunk of value.

Can anyone verify this? It would substantially alter the outlook (at least for FR).

From the Ed Greenwood interview in Dragon 335

"Under the origional Realms agreement, there are conditions under which the realms "reverts" to me so I doubt the current copyright holders will let those conditions happan"

 

[Nyarlathotep]

We don't sit around, plotting ways to force people to buy miniatures.

Just once I'd like to see someone say "Yes! We do sit around plotting ways to get people to buy miniatures!" or ... "We eat babies for breakfast while making up 4E! And like it!"

The resulting firestorm and flame war would be so worth it.

 

[Pants]

Just once I'd like to see someone say "Yes! We do sit around plotting ways to get people to buy miniatures!" or ... "We eat babies for breakfast while making up 4E! And like it!"

Well.... I once saw Andy Collins kick a puppy.

This was right after Monte Cook quit WotC because he couldn't keep up with the daily required meal of 'cute kitten pie.'

And then Bruce Cordell punched baby...*


Note: Totally not true, it was a baby seal.

 

[Steel_Wind]

The premise of the thread is bizarre.

First off - Atari (nee Infogrames) already had the rights to D&D and a slew of others. They sold Magic:TG back along with Transformers for 60 million or so.

The rest packaged off were irrelevant hangers on from the Hasbro Interactive sale.

What was not irrelevant was that there was no way Atari was letting the D&D rights go. The reason is pretty simple: they were the most valuable electronic rights of the lot (far and away) and are part of the core stratey of Atari's business plan.

If you don't agree with that assessment - go read Atari's recent SEC filings. D&D titles and D&D online are what they are betting the company on (at least it's a better bet than Driver 3).

Hasbro has been shopping D&D for a a while but without the electronic rights that go with it, it's a tough sell.

That said: Who would I wish would buy them?

Simple: The one company who would husband along D&D as a strong PnP RPG and leverage it to make the very best electronic games possible with the (finally) resulting creative freedom to do it.

The company who in my dreams would own D&D as a subsidiary is BioWare Corp..

Is that at all realistic?

No.

 

[Maggan]

That said: Who would I wish would buy them?

I haven't got a clue. But I think Blizzard could be a good fit, but they have their Warcraft brand, which would be in direct competition with the D&D brand.

/M

 

[Maggan]

Simple.
Paizo (and others) are willing to pay real money for licenses (including Greyhawk).
Yet Hasbro/WotC won't agree to it. But then they don't use it themselves.

So they have lost a revenue stream, and gain no perceptible advantage in doing so. Companies are motivated by the bottom line.

This decision is bizarre and inexplicable.

It is bizarre only if the revenue stream from a licensed property significantly exceeds the extra costs incurred by keeping track of the lincensee, approval, lawyers and other stuff that need to be put in place for such an arrangement to be fruitful for WotC.

They do license the D&D brand to KenzerCo, so this should have given them ample experience as to what they would have to deal with. It might not be worth it for WotC in the long run, unless the licensee has a sure fire hit that'll make millions and millions of dollars for little expense from WotC.

/M

 

[Tinner]

And then Bruce Cordell punched baby...*

In Bruce's defense, that baby WAS being a real jerk.