HD-DVD is Dead (was: First Signs of Blu-Ray Dominance)

[Banshee16]

Hehe.

As predicted by me, more than a year and a half ago.

I'm not sad, either: more storage capacity = good.

To be fair, currently they're equal, as per the 3 layer HDDVD disks....which actually get one more gig than Blu-Ray. Blu-Ray is improving though....but of course, HDDVD would then seek to improve.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-ent...to-51gb-with-triple-layer-goodness-228801.php

HDDVD is internet enabled, whereas Blu-Ray isn't. From what I've read, an upcoming new BD release was going to enable internet capability....but the players which allow it are not compatible with the existing Blu-Ray disks..

I definitely think Blu-Ray is benefiting from better marketing....it's not a case closed as to which technology is better, though, from what I'm seeing.

It may be redundant in the end, but oh well...

Banshee

 

[Rackhir]

To be fair, currently they're equal, as per the 3 layer HDDVD disks....which actually get one more gig than Blu-Ray. Blu-Ray is improving though....but of course, HDDVD would then seek to improve.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-ent...to-51gb-with-triple-layer-goodness-228801.php

Given that there are no shipping or AFAIK even announced movies on triple layer disks. It's purely theoretical. Blu-Ray can pull off the same trick and at 25gb vs 17gb per layer, they'll continue to hold a significant edge in capacity. They're due to come out with at least 4 layer disks FWIW.

HDDVD is internet enabled, whereas Blu-Ray isn't. From what I've read, an upcoming new BD release was going to enable internet capability....but the players which allow it are not compatible with the existing Blu-Ray disks..

I can see no reason why an internet connected Blu-Ray player should be incompatible with older blu-ray disks. Perhaps you meant the "existing players"?

I'm not really seeing the point of an "internet" connected disk movie player to be perfectly honest. Granted it does add some ability to "update" the disks and I suppose potentially make for some sort of downloadable movie source. But it seems mostly like a feature in search of a use. I mean if they've got the content produced, why can't they just stick it on an additional disk? It's not like multi-disk movies and/or additional content disks are rare, unknown or horribly more expensive.

It also opens the specter of what happens when the service or servers that provide this content get shut down. A number of people have already gotten burned by various download services, like Wal-mart's recently shuttered one, that left what people had payed for either crippled or even unavailable.

While yes most of the older Blu-Ray players won't be able to support internet connectivity (they lack an ethernet port), by factors of ten, the most common Blu-Ray player is the PS3 which has all the necessary hardware (and then some like wireless). So I'm not seeing this as being a major liability, since all PS3s should need is a software update (they already support internet access after all).

Has anyone come out with some compelling additional content that does take advantage of it? I know that "300" is supposed to take advantage of this feature, but it seems to largely consist of being able to create your own "cuts" of the movie.

http://krisabel.ctv.ca/blog/_archives/2007/7/31/3131033.html

 

[Banshee16]

Has anyone come out with some compelling additional content that does take advantage of it? I know that "300" is supposed to take advantage of this feature, but it seems to largely consist of being able to create your own "cuts" of the movie.

http://krisabel.ctv.ca/blog/_archives/2007/7/31/3131033.html

My understanding is that they've got content using those features with "300", Bourne Ultimatum, and Blood Diamond so far.

My player isn't hooked up to the net, as I don't have a router near my TV, so I haven't experienced this content, though I do have all three of the movies.

As to its utility.....well.....everyone can find uses, or lack of use in particular features. Personally, I question how useful a 200 GB Blu-Ray disk is. Movies don't require *that* much space, and as a means of backing up a system it's sub-optimal. Would you really *want* to put 200 gig of content on a disk that can be wrecked by a simple scratch or by being slightly bent or something, when trying to get it out of a case?

Personally, I'd rather a good portal HD unit. I've got DVD-R's that I barely use as is. Sure, they're cheap, but storing them's a pain, and I find my $100 portable hard drive that I can connect via USB to be way more useful.

I'm not blasting either technology. I wish they would just merge the two or something. The whole thing is largely a "who's got the biggest d#$%" contest by a bunch of nerds I think both technologies are good....frankly, there's no picture difference that I can see, as I've got one player, and have seen the other elsewhere. There was really no need to have a format war in the first place, if Sony had been willing to share its toys, instead of trying to develop control over their standard of choice. The unfortunate thing is that this is all largely in the interests of the companies, but not the customers. At this point, if one technology wins, you're either going to have millions of people with HDDVD players who are left out in the cold, or millions of people with Blu-Ray players. Which isn't good for customers in any case.

Hopefully development/sales of dual-format players continues, prices come down, etc. and in another year, instead of getting a Blu-Ray player, I get a dual-format one, and then I'll be covered, whoever wins.

It's a hard choice....stay out of the next gen completely, and remain with standard DVD? Well, if you do, whenever a clear standard is determined, you've got *that* many more standard DVDs to replace. Or buy in, and risk choosing the wrong side.

It'll be interesting to see what will happen though. If Blu-Ray does win, what happens to XBox? Does Sony turn around and deny Microsoft the right to use a Blu-Ray drive in the XBox 3? That could be grounds for an anti-trust lawsuit right there.

Banshee

 

[Rackhir]

Personally, I'd rather a good portal HD unit. I've got DVD-R's that I barely use as is. Sure, they're cheap, but storing them's a pain, and I find my $100 portable hard drive that I can connect via USB to be way more useful.

Yeah, HD are definitely better overall and with Terabyte drives continually dropping in price some sort of media server IS definitely going to be the ultimate end point of this sort of product. But that isn't really going to happen until Hollywood pulls it's head out of its...

There's also something to be said for having a backup for stuff like this in disk form though. HD will and will always crash eventually.

There was really no need to have a format war in the first place, if Sony had been willing to share its toys, instead of trying to develop control over their standard of choice.

There's enough blame to go around on all sides for this format war. Toshiba made a ton of money off of their DVD patents and wanted to continue that. While Sony wanted in on the gravy train as well. It wasn't a simple matter of intransigence on just one side or the other.

It'll be interesting to see what will happen though. If Blu-Ray does win, what happens to XBox? Does Sony turn around and deny Microsoft the right to use a Blu-Ray drive in the XBox 3? That could be grounds for an anti-trust lawsuit right there.

From what I understand of things. Blu-Ray is no more completely controlled by Sony than DVD was by Toshiba/Philips. It's controlled and licensed by a consortium, like with DVDs and CDs. Sony does indeed have the major patents on the technology, but this doesn't mean that they have control over the end products. So AFAIK, there's no reason why MS couldn't buy a "raw" blu-ray drive from one of the chinese hardware manufacturers for use with an X-Box, just like they do now with DVD and HD-DVD drive hardware.

I'm sure Sony would love to screw over MS in the way you suggest. However, I've long been of the opinion that Sony views the battle over the disk format and the patent revenues as more important than the fight over the consoles. After all, the drives and disks are both used far more widely than any console ever could be and a cut of that revenue stream is going to be immensely lucrative. That's why they included it in the PS3, despite the extra expense it added to the PS3. They wanted to help ensure that Blu-Ray would win the format war, as it appears to have done. So I doubt they'd jeopardize that by such a raw abuse of power, assuming they even could.

 

[Vocenoctum]

From what I've read, an upcoming new BD release was going to enable internet capability....but the players which allow it are not compatible with the existing Blu-Ray disks..

My main thing with the HDWar is that I'm not sure how long either format will be around for, given near constant advances in both formats. Sure it's all hypothetical/ developmental stuff, but a lot of it is incompatible with the current players.

I'm in no rush to upgrade either way. (Amazon had a Bourne Trilogy HD-DVD for free with the 360 player and it made me consider it, but eh I don't really watch that many DVD's.)

I definitely think Blu-Ray is benefiting from better marketing....it's not a case closed as to which technology is better, though, from what I'm seeing.

I'm a bit cynical, so take it with a grain of salt, but I think both companies are simply paying off studios to go their way and it has nothing to do with the companies giving any thought to the actual format or it's advantages.

Seriously, why go exclusively BluRay? Do the HD-DVD sales not pay for themselves? Going exclusive removes sales, it can't possibly add any. Mind you, it's such a small market that perhaps the HD-DVD production runs don't pay for themselves, but consolidating into one format won't be the thing to expand the market, IMO. The HD-Wars can end, but that doesn't mean suddenly everyone will buy.

 

[John Crichton]

As to its utility.....well.....everyone can find uses, or lack of use in particular features. Personally, I question how useful a 200 GB Blu-Ray disk is. Movies don't require *that* much space, and as a means of backing up a system it's sub-optimal.

You'd be surprised at how much space uncompressed video and audio can take up when you want it to look HD awesome.

I'm not blasting either technology. I wish they would just merge the two or something. The whole thing is largely a "who's got the biggest d#$%" contest by a bunch of nerds I think both technologies are good....frankly, there's no picture difference that I can see, as I've got one player, and have seen the other elsewhere.

Both techs are cool with me and I own the ability to enjoy both. However, I've always been in favor of the better tech winning out, which in this case would be Blu-Ray.

There was really no need to have a format war in the first place, if Sony had been willing to share its toys, instead of trying to develop control over their standard of choice. The unfortunate thing is that this is all largely in the interests of the companies, but not the customers. At this point, if one technology wins, you're either going to have millions of people with HDDVD players who are left out in the cold, or millions of people with Blu-Ray players. Which isn't good for customers in any case.

No need to blame Sony. The "format war" isn't their fault. It's every company with an interests fault, if you want to call it that. Can't blame a company for trying to make money.

It'll be interesting to see what will happen though. If Blu-Ray does win, what happens to XBox? Does Sony turn around and deny Microsoft the right to use a Blu-Ray drive in the XBox 3? That could be grounds for an anti-trust lawsuit right there

No, the BR folks will gladly take MS's money. It's that simple.

 

[Vocenoctum]

It'll be interesting to see what will happen though. If Blu-Ray does win, what happens to XBox? Does Sony turn around and deny Microsoft the right to use a Blu-Ray drive in the XBox 3? That could be grounds for an anti-trust lawsuit right there.

Banshee

The studio's have already been doing digital downloads for the 360, including those publishing on Bluray, so not a huge hurdle. The real hurdle is the fact you're usually renting the properties rather than owning.

 

[John Crichton]

I'm a bit cynical, so take it with a grain of salt, but I think both companies are simply paying off studios to go their way and it has nothing to do with the companies giving any thought to the actual format or it's advantages.

It's possible, even though WB is denying it.

Seriously, why go exclusively BluRay? Do the HD-DVD sales not pay for themselves? Going exclusive removes sales, it can't possibly add any. Mind you, it's such a small market that perhaps the HD-DVD production runs don't pay for themselves, but consolidating into one format won't be the thing to expand the market, IMO. The HD-Wars can end, but that doesn't mean suddenly everyone will buy.

I can see the advantage of wanting a unified format. If backing one side means the end of the format war and the upside is that it becomes the next DVD, I'd do it. WB swings a pretty big club in this fight.

 

[Mallus]

The HD-Wars can end, but that doesn't mean suddenly everyone will buy.

The idea is that more people will buy when there's a single format. Sounds reasonable to me.

 

[Banshee16]

My main thing with the HDWar is that I'm not sure how long either format will be around for, given near constant advances in both formats. Sure it's all hypothetical/ developmental stuff, but a lot of it is incompatible with the current players.

I'm in no rush to upgrade either way. (Amazon had a Bourne Trilogy HD-DVD for free with the 360 player and it made me consider it, but eh I don't really watch that many DVD's.)



I'm a bit cynical, so take it with a grain of salt, but I think both companies are simply paying off studios to go their way and it has nothing to do with the companies giving any thought to the actual format or it's advantages.

Seriously, why go exclusively BluRay? Do the HD-DVD sales not pay for themselves? Going exclusive removes sales, it can't possibly add any. Mind you, it's such a small market that perhaps the HD-DVD production runs don't pay for themselves, but consolidating into one format won't be the thing to expand the market, IMO. The HD-Wars can end, but that doesn't mean suddenly everyone will buy.

I agree.....all Disney, Warner etc. have done by becoming exclusive is ensure that I stop paying for their products, as a consumer who possibly chose the wrong side.

It doesn't mean I'm going to run out and buy the other technology, because as others have said (and as I've said) there's no guarantee that Blu-Ray will win either. Maybe Blu-Ray beats HDDVD, and then Blu-Ray gets crushed by something else in another year.

There are different ways to look at it. Are the majority of people refraining from buying *because* there's a format war? Because the both new technologies are expensive? I don't know. I suspect it's a little of both A and B. Personally, I'd intended to stay out of it until there was a clear winner, and only got in when there were deals offered for the XBox player, since I already have the 360. But at the store I got sold into a stand alone player that was a little more expensive. But I hadn't *intended* to buy until this war was resolved. Oh well, guess I was sucked in by all the demos I was seeing at the stores. They do look nice though I did convince 3 other people to buy HDDVD players, once they saw mine though....mainly with Boxing Day sales etc.

You're probably right about the companies paying studios to get on side. I'd prefer there were no exclusives, and you just had the ability to buy content for whichever of the two you want.

As to XBox, and whether it'll be hurt, it's interesting to see some of the announcements coming out regarding the XBox getting access to digital movie content from Disney and MGM, and streaming IPTV in Britain (with PVR type features, I think). Maybe Microsoft is going to push against Sony through these other avenues? Of course, these are big deals, so I doubt any of them are in response to Friday's announcement.

Banshee