Heath Ledger got an award for the joker

[mr.pink]

Do you have a source on that? Because everything I've seen has indicated he put much more thought into it than that. He spent time studying how ventriloquists make their dummies talk so he could incorporate that into his performance, for example.

Yes, actually i do. 1:30ish [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKa-aDga1fE]YouTube - Heath Ledger talks about the Joker[/ame]

Why is he more the Joker in this scene than the others? How are they different?

Because in this scene the joker thinks he is being hilarious. While in the why so serious scene he obviously is remembering that moment in his life and is saddened by it, the joker himself breaking character, but then returning. In the why so serious scene the joker would try to make it up off of the top of his head, but in such a way you know he is lying.

Saying that there's only one "real" way to portray the Joker is as silly as saying there's only one "real" way to portray Batman, or James Bond, or any other longstanding character.

That's not silly at all, its my point. He played a marvelous crazy clown who WASN'T the joker. If the actor for james bond got up there with a hunched back and started making big stupid moves instead of intracitly planned stratagies you would see what i mean.

In order to say whether he deserved it or not you have to look at the other nominees for comparison and then factor politics in as well.

James Brolin - Milk
Robert Downey jr. - Tropic Thunder
Philip Seymour Hoffman - Doubt
Heath Ledger - The Dark Knight
Michael Shannon - Revolutionary Road

The Accademy seems to prefer roles that do more than just have people play them well, they like roles that either stretch acting far or go agaist the grain. Whether it is right or not they will also look at who has recenntly won, or if they have been unrewarded too long for thier entirety of work. With those in mind this is what I saw.

Politics shoud not be involved. The fact that heath ledger died has nothing to do with how well he acted, without his death people would see his performance as what it was, a well played crazy clown that WAS NOT THE JOKER IN ANYTHING OTHER THAN NAME.

 

[Mallus]

...without his death people would see his performance as what it was, a well played crazy clown that WAS NOT THE JOKER IN ANYTHING OTHER THAN NAME.

And why isn't a 'well-played crazy clown' a valid interpretation of the Joker? No authoritative version of the character exists (well, maybe Cesar Romero...).

If different actors/productions can interpret a character like Hamlet in different ways, the Joker's certainly fair game...

 

[Brown Jenkin]

Politics shoud not be involved. The fact that heath ledger died has nothing to do with how well he acted, without his death people would see his performance as what it was, a well played crazy clown that WAS NOT THE JOKER IN ANYTHING OTHER THAN NAME.

In my post I pointed out that without his death it would have been a close race between him and Philip Seymour Hoffman. They didn't just give it too him because he died. If his last film was 10 Things I Hate About You instead of The Dark Knight he would not have been nominated much less have won. The politics aspect was the tiebreaker, not the underlying basis for the award.

If accuracy to source material was a criteria then many many many more films would not be eligible for awards. The Academy (And the Golden Globes, and the SAG Awards) don't care about original source material, they care about accuracy to the directors intent. If you don't like the Joker character as envisioned by Nolan, blame Nolan. A Directors Award is what can and should be penalized for non-accuracy to the source material. But then Nolan was not nominated for Best Director. As for acting awards it doesn't matter what the character is like in other mediums, the award committees care about how well the actor acted. If you disagree with this philosophy, that is fine but then don't take it out Heath Ledger, but rather on the Academy instead and stop caring about Oscars in general. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

 

[Mouseferatu]

That's not silly at all, its my point. He played a marvelous crazy clown who WASN'T the joker. If the actor for james bond got up there with a hunched back and started making big stupid moves instead of intracitly planned stratagies you would see what i mean.

And my point is that you're talking nonsense.

Look at Christian Bale's Batman compared to Adam West's Batman. They're about as different as you could imagine, but they're both Batman--and they're both loyal to the comic books, just at different times in their history, and viewed through a different creative concept.

Roger Moore's James Bond is a very different character than Sean Connery's, which is a very different character than Daniel Craig's. But they're all James Bond, just a different interpretation.

Heath Ledger's Joker is a different interpretation than Jack Nicholson's or Mark Hammil's or Caesar Romero's, but it's no less the Joker--and it, too, is loyal to the comic book character, just at a different time in the character's comic book history than Nicholson's or Hammil's or Romero's.

The fact that it's not the interpretation you prefer doesn't make it any less "real."

 

[Fast Learner]

In the interview he says that after being asked, he knew in five seconds how he wanted to play it and discussed it with Nolan. In no way does that mean he spent five seconds thinking about how to perform the role. Seriously, just think about it for a second.

 

[Merkuri]

If the actor for james bond got up there with a hunched back and started making big stupid moves instead of intracitly planned stratagies you would see what i mean.

If that actor did an excellent job portraying a difficult character then he would deserve an Oscar, too.

They don't give Oscars for loyalty to a franchise. They give Oscars for awe inspiring acting.

 

[Darth Shoju]

Yes, actually i do.

He knew how he was going to approach it in "5 seconds", he didn't say he spent five seconds total creating his interpretation of the character. He also said the Joker was a more complex character than Bob Dylan. I think the fact that Heath considered him more complex than a real person (and a rather eccentric one at that) is indicitave that he spent more than 5 seconds creating his version of the Joker.

Because in this scene the joker thinks he is being hilarious. While in the why so serious scene he obviously is remembering that moment in his life and is saddened by it, the joker himself breaking character, but then returning. In the why so serious scene the joker would try to make it up off of the top of his head, but in such a way you know he is lying.

Well, he does contradict himself on the origin of his facial scars in the movie. Seems like he was, in fact, making it up as he went. Or possibly not. That's one of the ways in which this version of the Joker is wonderfully nuanced: they play up the mystery of his personality and motivations to add to his role as an agent of chaos.

Frankly, it seems to me that *you* are the one that is reducing the character to simply "a crazy clown". Even in the comics the Joker is about more than just killing people in strange ways and being hillarious about it.

 

[Felon]

Y'know, when this post was first made yesterday, I had the opportunity to be the first to reply. I started out by pointing out how most of mr. pink's criticisms had little to do with what an Oscar is awarded for. But then I thought, "what's the point?" The whole presentation is not well-structured.

But I gotta say, mr. pink's James Bond analogy actually does a good job of working against his position. As mouseferatu touches on, the debate of whether Roger Moore or Sean Connery was the best Bond is a staple amongst Bond fans. Moore was smooth and suave, whereas Connery was more of a rough man's man who hid behind a ruse of poshness. Very different interpretations of Ian Flemming's creation.

I suspect the Nicholson/Ledger debate will go down as a classic as well, along with whoever takes up the mantle next.

 

[Relique du Madde]

Here I thought the academy awards were about acting and filmmaking, not being faithful to comic book characters

I thought the academy awards was a popularity contest between actors?

 

[Thanee]

...the debate of whether Roger Moore or Sean Connery was the best Bond is a staple amongst Bond fans.

Wait, there are people who think Moore was a better Bond than Connery!?

Craziness!

Bye
Thanee