Helm of Opposite Alignment, Efreeti, and You

[Taluron]

But those effected by the Helm Of Opposite Alignment are happy with their new alignment. Wouldn't the Efreeti then appreciate the person who brought him this happiness, and new insight?

There was a similar thing that happened in one of our campaigns.

BBEG captured a Silver Dragon. Tortured her to death.
When her mate arrived the BBEG threw a HoOA on his head. Figured the dragon would be working for him since it was now evil.
HA!
The (now) evil Ancient Huge Silver Dragon proceeded to destory 3/4 of the BBEG's castle and the people there in. Rather than just killing the BBEG for what he did to his mate.

It changes the wearers alignment.
Not the wearers opinion of you.
It can change what the wearer is willing to do about his opinion of you.

 

[Mighty Veil]

I don't think this is an evil act. Not a good act perhaps, but not an evil one. You're converting evil into good, right? It's not Clockwork Orange with the efreeti getting sick every time he hears the 9th Symphony and wants to do an evil act.

As a DM you could have the now CG efreeti no longer agree to the 1001 days pact. He's chaotic and being good may feel him he is a slave and not a servant. So he attacks and escapes, swearing revenge. Here's a way to get some non-evil monsters into the game. He recruits them. Eventually revenge turns him evil, CE.

 

[ardentmoth]

I'd say that the PC has at the very least become lawful, as pushing one's beliuef system on someone else is a radically lawful thing to do; however, it is not evil.

I would, however, suggest that if the PC does not voluntarily decide to change his/her alignment to LG or LN, that they have violated the CG alignment, and are thus Evil now. allow him/her to change willingly to LG, or they will become CE as a result of this action, making for an interesting fight scene involving a fairly typical drow and a very strange efreet.

 

[Slife]

I'd say that the PC has at the very least become lawful, as pushing one's beliuef system on someone else is a radically lawful thing to do; however, it is not evil.

I would, however, suggest that if the PC does not voluntarily decide to change his/her alignment to LG or LN, that they have violated the CG alignment, and are thus Evil now. allow him/her to change willingly to LG, or they will become CE as a result of this action, making for an interesting fight scene involving a fairly typical drow and a very strange efreet.

"Lawful characters tell the truth, keep their word, respect authority, honor tradition, and judge those who fall short of their duties.
Chaotic characters follow their consciences, resent being told what to do, favor new ideas over tradition, and do what they promise if they feel like it."

I don't see anything about forcing your beliefs upon others.

 

[Trickstergod]

I'd say that the PC has at the very least become lawful, as pushing one's beliuef system on someone else is a radically lawful thing to do; however, it is not evil.

I would, however, suggest that if the PC does not voluntarily decide to change his/her alignment to LG or LN, that they have violated the CG alignment, and are thus Evil now. allow him/her to change willingly to LG, or they will become CE as a result of this action, making for an interesting fight scene involving a fairly typical drow and a very strange efreet.

One act does not an alignment change make.

Though to Slife:

"'Chaotic' implies freedom." While the Lawful Evil alignment is called the Dominator. Both of these imply, in part, that forcing ones beliefs on others is at least somewhat lawful and a little bit evil.

Meanwhile, to everyone saying that forcing service isn't as evil as killing someone...well, gee. It might be more evil to kill a prisoner then to throw them into a dungeon for the rest of their life with nothing more than bread, water, rats, and darkness to be their companions for the next few decades, but that doesn't mean putting the person in the dungeon isn't good, either.

Forcing servitude and brainwashing someone unwillingly is evil.

Though, again, one act does not an evil person make. Or lawful. Or even neutral.

 

[Goobermunch]

I'm thinking that the efreeti has a bluff of +15 and a sense motive of +15. If I'm the efreeti and I get even the slightest hint of what's going on, I'm totally lying and pretending to be Chaotic Good. Not only that, I'll lie and say the reason I still detect as evil is because I'm an outsider, and while my heart has changed, my nature has not.

I'll mope and moan about how difficult it will be, cut off from my own people, unwanted in the realms of the good genie. I'll do anything to show that I'm not who I used to be.

Then, I'll demand release from my servitude. I'll complain about how unfair it is that I be forced to obey the PC because of an oath I took before. And when the moment is right, I'll be delivering a helm of my own to the PC.

But then again, I'm evil.

--G

 

[Imp]

I'd say that the PC has at the very least become lawful, as pushing one's beliuef system on someone else is a radically lawful thing to do; however, it is not evil.

I would, however, suggest that if the PC does not voluntarily decide to change his/her alignment to LG or LN, that they have violated the CG alignment, and are thus Evil now. allow him/her to change willingly to LG, or they will become CE as a result of this action, making for an interesting fight scene involving a fairly typical drow and a very strange efreet.

That's crazy. There's nothing about the alignment system that says that characters have to be philosophically consistent, and that "chaotic" alignments have to adhere to a firm conception of individual rights. Chaotic can mean a number of things, just as lawful can mean adherence to any number of different codes.

 

[moritheil]

Any chaotic creature would likely be pleased with the result.

I don't really see where it says under CG that the player cannot change the alignments of others. Even the Book of Exalted Deeds has exalted spells that force a conversion. If it's exalted to magically alter someone's alignment against their will, then surely doing it won't make a character less good.

(This may depend on how well you like concepts like ontological good and evil, but that is a rules source for you RAW-lovers.)

 

[IceFractal]

Well I never argued it was a good act in general. I just claimed it was no worse than killing them.

The sticky bit is the implicit assumption that allows "good" alignment to coexist with the fact that killing things (and taking their stuff) is one of the main ingredients in the adventurer lifestyle. To make 90% of D&D modules work, you have to assume that you can kill evil creatures, take their stuff, and still be good aligned.

And if you accept that, it's hard to argue how anything short of killing them is somehow a bad thing, when hacking them to pieces with an axe is fine and dandy.

 

[jensun]

But those effected by the Helm Of Opposite Alignment are happy with their new alignment. Wouldn't the Efreeti then appreciate the person who brought him this happiness, and new insight?

As already mentioned while they may be happy with their alignment it doesnt automatically change their opinion of the person.

If I had been forced into some sort of mystical awakening and insight by being repetedly tortured by a cursed magical item I may remain less than pleased with the person who inflicted it on me, regardless of the benefits it has provided.