Helm of Opposite Alignment, Efreeti, and You

[Nifft]

If I had been forced into some sort of mystical awakening and insight by being repetedly tortured by a cursed magical item I may remain less than pleased with the person who inflicted it on me, regardless of the benefits it has provided.

Maybe, but how is that relevant? Torture is not involved, and the target "enjoys his new outlook".

This metal hat looks like a typical helmet. When placed upon the head, however, its curse immediately takes effect (Will DC 15 negates). On a failed save, the alignment of the wearer is radically altered to an alignment as different as possible from the former alignment—good to evil, chaotic to lawful, neutral to some extreme commitment (LE, LG, CE, or CG). Alteration in alignment is mental as well as moral, and the individual changed by the magic thoroughly enjoys his new outlook.

Thoroughly.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Mishihari Lord]

I'd say alignment change for the PC. CG is all about respect for free will. Using a helm to fundamentally alter another's mind? I can't imagine a bigger violation of CG tenets.

 

[Starbuck_II]

As already mentioned while they may be happy with their alignment it doesnt automatically change their opinion of the person.

If I had been forced into some sort of mystical awakening and insight by being repetedly tortured by a cursed magical item I may remain less than pleased with the person who inflicted it on me, regardless of the benefits it has provided.

Um, no torture is active at all ot used.

Yes, if the effretti still does evil: it punishes him, but than he shouldn't be acting evil as he enjoys doing good instead now.

 

[0bsolete]

I'd say alignment change for the PC. CG is all about respect for free will. Using a helm to fundamentally alter another's mind? I can't imagine a bigger violation of CG tenets.

Actually, having a constant respect for free will is more of a lawful thing. Because that is adhering to a constant and enduring system of values.

From the SRD: Chaotic Good, "Rebel"

A chaotic good character acts as his conscience directs him with little regard for what others expect of him. He makes his own way, but he’s kind and benevolent. He believes in goodness and right but has little use for laws and regulations. He hates it when people try to intimidate others and tell them what to do. He follows his own moral compass, which, although good, may not agree with that of society.

Chaotic good is the best alignment you can be because it combines a good heart with a free spirit.

I can see a CG character keeping somebody as a servant until they can force their alignment into the "good" spectrum. Its for the greater good right? Even if some people might have some problems with taking away a persons will, they just don't understand that sometimes you have to step over a blurry a line to do whats good for people. And if he's good, he won't be starting up attacks and whatnot, so you're saving lives anyways.

 

[Slife]

I'm thinking that the efreeti has a bluff of +15 and a sense motive of +15. If I'm the efreeti and I get even the slightest hint of what's going on, I'm totally lying and pretending to be Chaotic Good. Not only that, I'll lie and say the reason I still detect as evil is because I'm an outsider, and while my heart has changed, my nature has not.

I'll mope and moan about how difficult it will be, cut off from my own people, unwanted in the realms of the good genie. I'll do anything to show that I'm not who I used to be.

Then, I'll demand release from my servitude. I'll complain about how unfair it is that I be forced to obey the PC because of an oath I took before. And when the moment is right, I'll be delivering a helm of my own to the PC.

But then again, I'm evil.

--G

Sorry, but I think it would be pretty easy to cast detect magic on the helmet. It becomes nonmagical after a successful use.

 

[Goobermunch]

Sorry, but I think it would be pretty easy to cast detect magic on the helmet. It becomes nonmagical after a successful use.

Bah. That's not as much fun.

Fine, make the Efreeti a Sorceror 4, and have him use Nystul's magic aura to deceive the PC. It's better for the story!

--G

 

[Mishihari Lord]

Actually, having a constant respect for free will is more of a lawful thing. Because that is adhering to a constant and enduring system of values.

From the SRD: Chaotic Good, "Rebel"

A chaotic good character acts as his conscience directs him with little regard for what others expect of him. He makes his own way, but he’s kind and benevolent. He believes in goodness and right but has little use for laws and regulations. He hates it when people try to intimidate others and tell them what to do. He follows his own moral compass, which, although good, may not agree with that of society.

Chaotic good is the best alignment you can be because it combines a good heart with a free spirit.

I can see a CG character keeping somebody as a servant until they can force their alignment into the "good" spectrum. Its for the greater good right? Even if some people might have some problems with taking away a persons will, they just don't understand that sometimes you have to step over a blurry a line to do whats good for people. And if he's good, he won't be starting up attacks and whatnot, so you're saving lives anyways.

We have very different views on what the alignments mean. What you describe as CG I see as CN. And "for the greater good" is generally an argument from the lawful side of the spectrum.

 

[Tal Rasha]

Alteration in alignment is mental as well as moral, and the individual changed by the magic thoroughly enjoys his new outlook.

I don't think that'd be enough. Even if a character's alignment is changed completely, it can still think rationally about where it is right now (metaphysically), and where it used to be. It is still possible to make a decision agains common sense, and against its own wishes. Even if the character is good and enjoys being good, it can still choose to do sth it would loathe. Just because.

Let me try to give an example. I have a flower pot. It has huge emotional value for me, and I know (rationally) that it does, and why it does. But I can still throw it off my balcony if I choose to do so one day (feeling depressed, feeling angry, feeling dissatisfied with the pot for some reason, whatever). So unless the PC has complete control of the NPC, I don't think the helm of opposite alignment would really work out in the long run.

 

[Imp]

Guh. Among other things, it is entirely possible for a chaotic good character to not fully respect the personal self-determination of an efreet, just as it is possible for a lawful good character to not fully respect the well-being of an orc.

 

[Dice4Hire]

The sticky bit is the implicit assumption that allows "good" alignment to coexist with the fact that killing things (and taking their stuff) is one of the main ingredients in the adventurer lifestyle. To make 90% of D&D modules work, you have to assume that you can kill evil creatures, take their stuff, and still be good aligned.

And if you accept that, it's hard to argue how anything short of killing them is somehow a bad thing, when hacking them to pieces with an axe is fine and dandy.

I think if you look at 100% or maybe a bit more of modules, you see that the evil creatures in the module are a direct threat to someone innocent, and usually a whole lot of somebodys who are innocent.

That is the key point that make it ok for good characters to go and kill them and take their stuff.