Helm of Opposite Alignment, Efreeti, and You

phindar

First Post
This came up in a game, not with an Efreeti but with evil cultists. We had found a Helm in their dungeon, captured a few of them, and after coverting them to the Good team, got them to map out the dungeon and tell us where the traps were.

It was a minor thorn in the GM's side. It was a module dungeon crawl so it didn't really matter, but the feeling was it was pretty cheezy. So some minor points were hashed out before this could crop up in a more serious game.

1) Helms of Opposite Alignment became one-shot items.

2) Brainwashing people was ruled to be morally shaky. (It is morally shaky, but to me it seems like a better option than letting evil people do evil and a wash with killing them.)

In the context of that game; a mega-dungeon meatgrinder bloodbath, we played it for laughs, and to ease in the mapping. I think we finally burned the Helm out after the few uses, but we had mapped most of the dungeon by that point and had good intelligence on where the cult leaders were located, so we didn't feel cheated.

Note: the argument against Helming people is that it deprives them of free will, but it doesn't really seem like this is an issue with certain creatures, the Any and Always aligned. If efreeti are always Lawful Evil then it doesn't seem like free will is a factor.

I would see such an efreeti becoming a pariah; loathed by the other extraplanars whose alignment he now shares, hated by his own kind. If a CG efreeti is a true impossibility, he may be marked for death by his lords, or go insane, or try to destroy himself.
 

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WayneLigon

Adventurer
In the normal sort of campaign I'd run, the Helm would either not work or only work temporarily on extra-planar creatures like that. They tend to be much more chained to their alignment (in just that sense, too) than humans and mortal creatures. It definately would not work on creatures that basically are their alignment: devas, demons, stuff like that.
 


Slife

First Post
jensun said:
There is no indication after the Helm works that the Efreeti is forced to continue to serve the character. If anything I would imagine that they are even more appalled at the treatment by the original PC and would do anything in their power to seek revenge. Just because the Efreeti is now CG doesnt necessarily make him a nice guy.

But those effected by the Helm Of Opposite Alignment are happy with their new alignment. Wouldn't the Efreeti then appreciate the person who brought him this happiness, and new insight?
 

szilard

First Post
Slife said:
But those effected by the Helm Of Opposite Alignment are happy with their new alignment. Wouldn't the Efreeti then appreciate the person who brought him this happiness, and new insight?

Happy with alignment doesn't mean happy with the prospect of getting there....

"Yes, you showed me the truth... through a vile act that violated my mind and free will."

Think A Clockwork Orange.

-Stuart
 

Herobizkit

Adventurer
Once the Helm is used, I'll likely turn the Efreet into a free-willed NPC; Chaotic Good people don't have to follow their word if it is not in their best interests. I may keep her around as a new best friend to the PC in question, but no more trucking around in lamps.

Thanks to the poster who suggested other outer-planar creatures coming to 'get' the new CG Efreet - it would be pleasant to have the PC have to defend the Efreet against the Efreet's former 'pals'...
 

Slife

First Post
szilard said:
Think A Clockwork Orange.
I don't see the analogy at all. A Clockwork Orange had a system that could just as easily have been accomplished with remote controlled injector and very good surveillance. The treatment did nothing whatsoever to change the fundamental person, just provided extremely prompt and harsh punishment under certain circumstances.

That said, as an outsider and "always lawful evil" race, it's debatable whether or not the monster in question even has free will. And if using a helm of opposite alignment to turn an evil person good were evil, then there is no good use for it, and the helm should require an evil alignment to craft or have an evil magical aura.
 

IceFractal

First Post
It might not be that nice, but it's hard to argue that it's worse than killing them, since being dead effectively takes away all their free will. And since in most campaigns, killing evil creatures is assumed to be acceptable, I don't see a good argument against the helmet.
 

szilard

First Post
IceFractal said:
It might not be that nice, but it's hard to argue that it's worse than killing them, since being dead effectively takes away all their free will. And since in most campaigns, killing evil creatures is assumed to be acceptable, I don't see a good argument against the helmet.

Then you probably aren't Chaotic Good.

-Stuart
 

Kyrail

First Post
Indentured service isn't slavery. If you keep sending him on suicide missions then yes you're not being chaotic good... but as long as you don't treat him like an expendable resource there isn't anything necessarily wrong about forcing an evil creature into service instead of murdering him.

It's certainly more good than killing him.

And just because you're chaotic doesn't mean you're a anarchist who decrys all form of servitude.

Anyway being chaotic is really more of a way you live your own life, not how you treat others.

There is a problem though. 3 years from now no good creature could let an irredeemably evil creature go free into the world, it's just clearly a bad idea.
 

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