Help in getting a second sneak attack

[CapnZapp]

Rogue doesn't suck but has more points in the exploration pillar and social than say a fighter. Even in 4E the Rogue was not the best damage dealer.

True.

Not asking about making a best damage dealer.

Just cares enough for my player that I wished the game had more organic min-max paths for Rogues, instead of treating sneak attack as some kind of uber-frightening ability.

A simple straight-forward way to enable the occasional two-sneak round would be nice.

Now, a more ruthlessly min-maxing player would have exploited OAs and reactions already. But that player is not it.

 

[CapnZapp]

I have gotten good advice in this thread. Thanks all!

(One big helpful aspect is: what we *don't* see in the thread. Meaning one big thing in cases like this is nor knowing what you fail to see and miss. Discussing it with others help unearth various solutions, making me feel better about not missing the obvious.)

 

[Zardnaar]

True.

Not asking about making a best damage dealer.

Just cares enough for my player that I wished the game had more organic min-max paths for Rogues, instead of treating sneak attack as some kind of uber-frightening ability.

A simple straight-forward way to enable the occasional two-sneak round would be nice.

Now, a more ruthlessly min-maxing player would have exploited OAs and reactions already. But that player is not it.

Yeah basically look at MC Fighter and Ranger options for the Rogue. Sneak attack is nice but compared to the power builds with feats its not that high. I did point out as far back the -5/+10 feats were OP

Just checked our thief has a 3pp feat and started with 19 dex (4d6 drop the lowest).

 

[AkaKageWarrior]

He simply dislikes multiclassed characters. Always have. Even in his favorite CRPG.

Not a helpful answer, but... (there were some, I second the reaction / OA boost, or simply something like flame tongue or keen weapons)
I don't get this, why then worry?
It looks like the other players are optimized also by multi-classing, if he does not make use of that option he should not complain - and you should not care.
It's like he's saying he prefers a dagger to a a rapier because it's more roguish. Yeah, maybe, but it's still 1d4 vs 1d8 and he simply doen not want to use the better option.
In a role-playing heavy group that's okay, but if players are kind of competetive concerning DPR (really?), well, if he doesn't want to compete, then it is not the DM's job to give him a dagger that does 1d8.

 

[Zardnaar]

A +1 dagger is more or less a d8 weapon (one less avg damage, +1 to hit), a +2 one great.

oops our Rogue has a +1 dagger thought it was a +2. He uses that and the weapons specialization feat (+1 ability score of your choice, +1 dice on a crit, reroll 1's or 2's if halfling).

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I do think it is harder to optimise a rogue - indeed I think this is part of the appeal of the class to players who like a challenge.

(My character is an eldritch knight, but we have two rogues in the party).

 

[Zardnaar]

I do think it is harder to optimise a rogue - indeed I think this is part of the appeal of the class to players who like a challenge.

(My character is an eldritch knight, but we have two rogues in the party).

the basic one is fighter dip for TWF, the brutal rogue or MCing out of the Rogue at level 8/10. And picking one of the right feats varies by subclass). And not using your bonus action to runaway all the time or screw around plinking away with a shortbow.

 

[CapnZapp]

I do think it is harder to optimise a rogue - indeed I think this is part of the appeal of the class to players who like a challenge.

I think WotC and far too many players just look at all those d6's and go "whoa", completely forgetting that no DPR fighter is content with just 1d8+5 damage.

Yes, sneak damage is good in games with no bells and whistles.

But my suspicion is that this "whoa" feeling have meant that there are no feats, items, class abilities or multiclass combos that improve sneak damage.

The result is that sneak damage falls hopelessly behind in games with bells and whistles.

 

[Quartz]

This is why this thread is about exploring ways to get a second sneak attack possibility in each round.

Well yes, but the rogue should be getting a sneak attack on his action, a second on his reaction, and possibly a third on a bonus action.

 

[Ancalagon]

He *is* useful to have around.

It's just that in any round he rolls low and misses.. He does nothing at all. It is extremely uncommon that any other character fails to do anything in a round (that would be the Druid when wildshaping against the wrong monster and not wishing to cast spells)

Is he using an off hand weapon at least? That would help double his chances of landing that sneak attack at least (note, borked wording at first, now fixed)

(oh and again, dagger of venom)