Help in rogue construction

[drunkadelic]

I just got told today by some friends that they thought rogues did "mediocre" damage. Seeing as I'm about to start playing in their Eberron campaign, I'd like the chance to prove them wrong. I set out with my legion of splatbooks and attempted to create the most tricked out, combat savvy, level 6 uber rogue that I could think of, but I just couldn't do it.

These guys are good guys, but ah, what's the term - they're a bit on the power gaming side. (Large sized warforged psychic warrior with a one-handed, monkey gripped mercurial fullblade in each hand?) I've always been more about starting a concept from a cool plot hook, or story, or just something cool I see in the world around me. I like to give my characters plenty of utility, and the chance to shine when it comes time to kick some booty, but i've never been able to work it out like those guys over in sultans of smack.

So I'm putting it out there for my pals in the ENWorld community. Let's see some backstabbity goodness. Level 6 and rogue or multiclass rogue, all core rules allowed.

Thanks in advance,
Drunkadelic

 

[Legildur]

I'd be inclined to take a halfling rogue for 5 levels (but I don't have all the splatbooks).

Feats would be Weapon Focus (dagger), Weapon Finesse, and Two Weapon Fighting (at 6th).

Then I'd looking at the Invisible Blade PrC from the Complete Warrior. I recall seeing a thread (on the WotC boards?) where the author of that PrC stated that the prerequisite feats listed were for the original version of the class when it went through 10 levels. He said that the 5 level version should only have a Weapon Focus (dagger, kukri, or punching dagger) and Weapon Finesse as prerequisite feats - which made a whole heap more sense.

Assuming you had a 18 Dex to start, the +2 racial bonus and 4th level stat bump would give you a 21 Dex (+5 modifier). With +1 daggers you have a +11 attack bonus (+4 BAB +5 Dex +1 dagger +1 feat) or two attacks at +9. And if you are flanking, that'd be two attacks at +11 doing 1d3+str mod+wpn+4d6. (say 18 points on each strike).

Later feats could include Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Two Weapon Defense, Close Quarters Fighting, or a myriad of other useful things.

The Invisible Blade also picks up some nice extras like Unfettered Defense (Int bonus to AC), Bleeding Wound, Uncanny Feint, and Feint Mastery. The latter 2 make it a whole lot easier to get a sneak attack off if you aren't flanking.

Obviously max out Tumble and Bluff skills for this one. And if the opponent isn't subject to sneak attacks (undead etc) then just use the Total Defense action to boost your AC and soak up attacks.

 

[Kabol]

Theres a Feat in the XPH - allows you to reroll ones for SA, thats a good one - Focusing on dagger will allow you to use it both in melee and at range to some degree, as well as getign access to invisable blade or master thrower later in level.

If playing in Eberron, dont discount the dragonmarks - human + mark of passage will give you dimensional slide - thats great for movemmt and i beleive will allow you to sneak attack after < like blinking > ~ Mark of shadow will give you acess to some cool spell like abilities as well.

Manoverabilty and being able to set up flank is a huge boost to rogue DPS, so maybe the spring attack chain - maybe a lil or 2 in fighter to speed up the feats - but since you get feats every even lvl in his campain wont be to bad. to just stay rogue.

Id def keep up with your UMD - with artificer in game to make items you will never really lack in that area.
~
Hope you enjoy the game - im sure they are not Powergamers, but nessesity before you joined forced a lil min maxing to survive - and that all the characters are well thought up and not just walking stat blocks - and that the DM strives to intereting adventures that test your mind, morals and roleplaying as well as your steel

 

[cdsaint]

Half orc barb1/rog 5. Go str heavy (why else take half orc?) and wield a greatsword or greataxe. The extra 2d6 sneak attack damage is even better when stacked on top of 2d6+6 damage for an 18 str. Not subtle, but you didn't ask for subtle.

Chris

 

[drunkadelic]

Theres a Feat in the XPH - allows you to reroll ones for SA, thats a good one - Focusing on dagger will allow you to use it both in melee and at range to some degree, as well as getign access to invisable blade or master thrower later in level.

If playing in Eberron, dont discount the dragonmarks - human + mark of passage will give you dimensional slide - thats great for movemmt and i beleive will allow you to sneak attack after < like blinking > ~ Mark of shadow will give you acess to some cool spell like abilities as well.

Manoverabilty and being able to set up flank is a huge boost to rogue DPS, so maybe the spring attack chain - maybe a lil or 2 in fighter to speed up the feats - but since you get feats every even lvl in his campain wont be to bad. to just stay rogue.

Id def keep up with your UMD - with artificer in game to make items you will never really lack in that area.
~
Hope you enjoy the game - im sure they are not Powergamers, but nessesity before you joined forced a lil min maxing to survive - and that all the characters are well thought up and not just walking stat blocks - and that the DM strives to intereting adventures that test your mind, morals and roleplaying as well as your steel

Darnit man, you're on to me. Hah, take all the fun out of the big suprise when I showed up with the rogue, by giving me advice.

Sneaky, sneaky DM.

(I don't mean the powergaming thing in a negative way - you guys still seem like rockin players. Min/Maxing just isn't my forte. I'm a softie RPer at heart.)

 

[Tatsukun]

These guys are good guys, but ah, what's the term - they're a bit on the power gaming side. (Large sized warforged psychic warrior with a one-handed, monkey gripped mercurial fullblade in each hand?)

Well, first point out that Monkey Grip can't be used in the off hand. If they are playing by the rules, it will be easier for you to compete.

After that, How about dual weilding throwing azes. Toss them at a high rate for lots of sneak attack. Maybe pick up a wand of summon monster to get that flanking goodness.

Good luck!

-Tatsu

 

[Darklone]

Right, I'd go for some combination of throwing and TWF style with invisible blade and master thrower levels... perhaps ftr2/rog4.

 

[Kabol]

Well he was a lil over the top with that example - kinda.

Our tank < and was our Only melee character of 3 people before we had a few poeple join us > is a Large warforged - He came up with a cool backstory as to how he came to be. And took it the race over some more "optimal" races for teh chance to explore the character concept. But he is a comabt monster, he monky grips a Huge full blade < which is really jsut a huge bastard sword > with a heavy spiked bashing shiled off hand. Hes very powerful in combat, but hes come up with a deep and thoughful character, not just a stat block.

I admit, we do crunch numbers and strive to an effective character - but im not sure I would call it min/maxing. I would prob say we are middle of the road, while we consider the numbers - its not a live and die by the numbers. Just differant ways of seeing it I suppose.

As for RPing - I really enjoy it, and I push my players to speak and act in character all the time. I never do " you talk to the maid and she tells you XXXX". When you talk to The maid I play the maid < and do very bad voices - but i try > and have the characters talk to them. I really try to have converstations between the NPCs and the PCs as much as I can. I may not be very good at it yet - but I think it adds a depth and allows me to use more subtle means of passing information < and eats up time for me to plot your doom >

~

As for Rogue - Look into the Dragonmarked Houses - Dragon mark feats offer some very good abilities for non-spellcaster, as well as opening up a Great avenue for Adventures, Intreague and RPing.

Also - Taking the Hidden Talent feat at lvl one allows you to become a psionic character < opens up acess to teh psionic focus feats > as well as allowing you to Manifest one power - and thats allows alot of new avenues for a character.

Later theres Precise swing feat form Eberron book - allows you to disregard cover for melee attacks ( well - all but full cover ) - thats gonna be handy for takin out magic users. Speakin of that - theres also teh Mage killer< or slayer > feat form Mini's book - makes it so people cant use defensive casting in squares you threaten.
~

But in the end - its all about haveing a fun character. Its more important to have a good time then anything else
~

Man - how did we derail the thread this hard?