Help Me Challenge One Of My Players

[Dagger75]

Wind Wall In front of the party, arrows can't pass through it.

 

[MongooseFamiliar]

Wind Wall In front of the party, arrows can't pass through it.

Or any wall (wall of smoke, wall of darkness, wall of thorns, etc.) or concealment, for that matter, aye. A sorceror or druid could really mess the archer up and make him, and the party, change tactics. A swarm of something, blindness, glitterdust, some sort of hallucinating or itching powder.....let your inner mischief-maker run wild!

There are some ninja-rogue-ish feats around that grant concealment all the time in some of the splatbooks, plus the Tome of Battle Shadow Hand has a 1st-level stance that grants 20% miss all the time. Not too shabby, expecially if the npc has deflect arrows or protection from normal missiles.

 

[jeffman]

Rules rules rules..

I know this isn't a rules forum question

but, do not forget the cover/softcover rules. If the PC's allies are providing a barrier for him, he is likely shooting through their squares.

 

[Sejs]

With a level of Sorcerer and Charisma 16 (+3), his Will save of +7 is actually quite decent for a character of his level.

Olaf the Stout

Er, how does his charisma factor into his will saves? Force of Personality feat?

Anyway, another thing to add to the pile: Entropic Shield. First level cleric spell, 20% miss chance vs ranged. Cheap AND easy.

 

[+5 Keyboard!]

Olaf, your player is running his character intelligently and has built him to do just what he is doing. Whatever you do, resist the temptation to punish his character for being effective. Just mix things up a bit. Right now, sure he's devastating with his bow. Let him enjoy his shining moment.

By diversifying the challenges you throw at your party there are going to be times when your archer is next to useless and the other players get to enjoy the spotlight. You have a cleric in the party? Well, how about the next adventure finds the PCs investigating a haunted keep full of undead with maybe a few of these...

STONE GIANT SKELETON CR 6
Monster Manual 124 and 225
NE Large undead
Init +6; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Listen +0, Spot +0
Language understands, but cannot speak Giant
AC 17, touch 12, flat-footed 14 (-1 size, +3 Dex, +2 natural, +3 hide)
hp 91 (14 HD); DR 5/bludgeoning
Immune cold
Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +9
Spd 30 ft.
Melee 2 claws +14 (1d6+8)
Space 10 ft. Reach 10 ft.
Base Atk +7; Grp +19
Abilities Str 27, Dex 17, Con –, Int –, Wis 10, Cha 1
SQ undead traits
Feats Improved Initiative

And how about tossing in some incorporeal undead.

Or how about some puzzles, problem solving... things that maybe the rogue in the party can get some time to shine. You might even try some challenges that the archer gets to be the star in which it doesn't require pincushioning the bad guys. How about trapping the party in some way that requires the archer to strike a far away button that deactivates some kind of big iron cage with inverted spikes that's slowing closing in on them. He's only got so many arrows, right? Think about the tension that builds each time he misses, the walls keep closing in, and he's down another arrow and cursing himself for wasting them on those stupid kobolds they just encountered.

There's a lot of ways to deal with really well crafted characters to challenge them. You don't have to beat them down. Just keep a good amount of variety coming at them... some things they may suck at, like dealing with a dire bear that's grappling them... others he'll be utterly unstoppable at like taking out a whole party of orcs out in the open before they ever get a chance to close for melee.

Anyway, hope some of my suggestions help.

 

[+5 Keyboard!]

A sorceror or druid could really mess the archer up and make him, and the party, change tactics.

I've run druids in my games before and when dealing with enemies with wooden weapons, warp wood is a sure way to make an archer unhappy. I'm not suggesting throwing a bunch of druid's at Olaf's archer character, just saying is all...

 

[Piratecat]

Damn you Piratecat. Damn you for making the solution to my problem so simple!

Neat!

In general, I personally think it's always better to make the game more fun for everyone else than it is to deliberately nerf or make the game un-fun for one person. That's why I hate cutting bow strings or breaking bows.

And besides, some of the best games ever for me have involved giant zombie undead with a cubic buttload of hitpoints, so that people can do max power attacks and achieve ludicrous damage - but still be threatened. Fun!

 

[MongooseFamiliar]

Olaf, your player is running his character intelligently and has built him to do just what he is doing. Whatever you do, resist the temptation to punish his character for being effective. Just mix things up a bit. Right now, sure he's devastating with his bow. Let him enjoy his shining moment.

There's a lot of ways to deal with really well crafted characters to challenge them. You don't have to beat them down. Just keep a good amount of variety coming at them... some things they may suck at, like dealing with a dire bear that's grappling them... others he'll be utterly unstoppable at like taking out a whole party of orcs out in the open before they ever get a chance to close for melee.

Anyway, hope some of my suggestions help.

True, punishing the guy isn't nice. I think a lot of us were suggesting strategies to challenge the party and the archer in particular. The various options for lowering the threat from a ranged weapon covered above, for example.

Also, Olaf - is the archer getting any sort of a reputation for his marksmanship? Or do they have an ongoing nemesis that might be keeping tabs on them? If so, they should expect to see strategies specifically tailored to "that group with the nasty archer and the barbarian with the big sword" and such.

 

[Olaf the Stout]

Er, how does his charisma factor into his will saves? Force of Personality feat?

Anyway, another thing to add to the pile: Entropic Shield. First level cleric spell, 20% miss chance vs ranged. Cheap AND easy.

Errrr... ...

It doesn't. Mark that down as a brain fart on my behalf. His Will save is actually +4 which isn't that flash after all.

Consider my comment withdrawn.

Olaf the Stout

 

[Thanee]

In general, I personally think it's always better to make the game more fun for everyone else than it is to deliberately nerf or make the game un-fun for one person. That's why I hate cutting bow strings or breaking bows.

Exactly!

The above suggestion, to break his bow, is easily the most un-fun solution to the perceived problem.

Situations, where it won't be easy for him to stay in the back, are better, than something specifically tailored to punish him for using a well-working strategy (as the +5 Keyboard pointed out).

But focusing on providing situations, where the other characters can shine a little more, is probably the best in most cases; restrictive situations get old pretty fast, too.

Bye
Thanee