Help Me Challenge One Of My Players

[shilsen]

I thought that you may have been referring to Divine Power. What other buff-type spells are you talking about in regards to the Cleric? Bull's Strength and Enlarge Person seem to be a common occurrance. What other ones would you expect that he would be using that are 3rd-level or below?

Olaf the Stout

Other than those, if you're using just the PHB, then Divine Favor comes to mind. Aid is nice too, while Bless and Prayer would be good for the entire group.

I should add that I'm in complete agreement with the others about providing opportunities for other PCs to shine being a much better approach than making the archer ineffectual. My suggestions are mostly to the end of having the odd encounter which puts a little fear into the archer.

 

[Darklone]

I'm in the camp of "Don't punish the archer".

He doesn't sound bad. An archer of 7th level might have a better bow and a higher str for three shots causing much more damage. He has a str +1 bonus, a +1 bow and Weapon Specialisation, +1d6 energy damage.

Sheesh, a level 7 bard archer with Haste WILL do better (Not that I think bards are weak!).

I am really surprised to see that the bbn/rog doesn't cause much more damage. Looks like he's not sneak attacking a lot in rage with Power Attack. And he does not have Cleave.

I do agree with posters above that a +4 softcover if the archers buddy stand in the way should cause many more of his shots to miss. Any other change in your tactics will only screw the archer more than would be fair.

Btw: Obscuring Mist into the melee area would be enough to make the archer worthless. But still: The archers damage is not high. His buddies are too weak IMHO. Looks like they don't have something comparable to the archers dex 21. If the Bbn/rog would have Str 21 plus Cleave before Rage, noone would care about your archer.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Seems, I am getting to this late...also in the camp of not punishing the Archer for doing what he should be doing.

However, my suggestion is to change the environment. You state that the archer hangs back from the group...far enough that any break-though mooks need at least 2 rounds to get to him. Thats 40+ feet.

In a dungeon with sharp corners, the bad guys simply fade back behind the nearest corner. The large PC's end up fighting just at the corner and the archer hangs back waiting...

In a dungeon with long corridors, the bad guys have an second group who attacks from the rear...leaving the archer 2 rounds away from his melee buddies...

In a dungeon with intelligent crittters defending it, some traps should be designed not to damage the party, but to split them up. Hanging back 40+ feet is almost a quarentee of being on his own.

In a tight corridor, firing past an enlarged barbarian.. you could rule full cover for the opponents. This would be in corridors where the Barbarian is 'squeezing'.

And, as others have said.. obscuring mist, darkness, etc...

Outdoor environs is where the archer should shine since underground is so limiting. Going outside it will be harder to justify up-close encounters and you will need to have a fair spread of distanced encounters.. give him a chance to use the range of the bow, preferably out to a couple range increments

YMMV

BTW, this coming from a guy whose favorite character is an Arcane Archer and I have faced all the above trouble

 

[notjer]

Challange them/him in some other ways. Maybe they're under great pressure from enemies and a good plan would be to set up a lot of traps (screw the rules). You could also sepperate them and pull it out like somekind of gladiator fight.

You could also try to challange them with political issuse - throw them into it, maybe they know something a big organization wouldn't like them to know, maybe they have cooperated with a powerful magician and arcane order are really pissed because he forced them to slay some arcane order members. Catch 'em and cast Quest on them to do a mission to live on.

Sorry if it's hard to understand because of grammar etc., I just suck ;P

 

[thedungeondelver]

Ambush. So the whole party is toe-to-toe with a scrimmage line of neatly organized and lined up ready-to-kill monsters? Have a passageway suddenly open up on the rear flank and now arrow boy is beset by eight or so bugbears all wielding longswords, ready to chop him into giblets.

 

[javcs]

Put a couple encounters in forests - plenty of room to get spread out, plenty of concealment/cover protecting the opposing meleeers, that same cover/concealment grants excellent opportunities for stealthy types to sneak up on the archer, and, on the plus side of things, if the party clears out much of the underbrush/trees, well, the local denizens won't be happy.
Three words (and a bonus option), Pixie Rogue Archers (with a bonus option of adding a socerer level to them for true strike).

A couple of them will ruin his day, while not being incredibly overpowering for the party.

Monsters that can burrow are another option.

Have him 'meet' a better archer.

I second the swarming the party with lots of mook-fodder.

Surprise the party, he's probably not wearing heavy armor (if he is, make sure to enforce the Dex caps), relying on his dexterity for AC.

Use concealment to invoke miss chances at longer ranges.

Mirror images will reduce his odds to hit.

Have the party to clear out a kobold warren, one with lots of traps, and concealed pathways to let the kobolds get behind the party for surprise rounds.

Drop high HP, low AC opponents on the party, like a group of giants, sure he can put 20 damage into them, but that's not much use, and with a group of them, they should be able to get one or two giants past the party melee line to charge the archer, remember, if somebody's got cover, you can't take an AoO on them, while rocks are being dropped from the sky on him by other giants.

Send the party underwater, drastically reducing the effectiveness of ranged weaponry, and opening more opportunities for opponents native to the water to slip around to get at the archer.

 

[AuraSeer]

I'm not sure that a grapple will bother him as much as you think. With basically a fighter BAB he would be reasonably effective in a grapple. He has Strength 13 which isn't anything to write home about but it is still reasonable nevertheless.

I think you're underestimating the effectiveness of grapple. It's good against most PC types, and even better against archers and spellcasters.

This PC's grapple check is only +7. Any vanilla warrior-type of his level will at least equal him, and will probably outdo him because of a higher Strength. Large or bigger monsters will pretty much crush him; a simple CR 2 ogre has +12, and a CR 7 hill giant has a +20.

Since the PC is wielding a bow and not a melee weapon, he gets no AoO when the enemy closes to grapple. About his only defense is his decent touch AC, and even that can be nullified by surprise or by hidden opponents. If the grappler's touch attack hits, he's going to be in trouble.

 

[Darklone]

Since the PC is wielding a bow and not a melee weapon, he gets no AoO when the enemy closes to grapple. About his only defense is his decent touch AC, and even that can be nullified by surprise or by hidden opponents. If the grappler's touch attack hits, he's going to be in trouble.

Not right. Draw arrow as free action after your last shot, use as improvised weapon, hit hill giant ==> caused damage wastes grapple.

And get Close Quarter Fighting is sooo normal for each fighter.

 

[+5 Keyboard!]

Not right. Draw arrow as free action after your last shot, use as improvised weapon, hit hill giant ==> caused damage wastes grapple.

And get Close Quarter Fighting is sooo normal for each fighter.

Sorry, Darklone, you don't get to draw weapons and make attacks on AOO's. This is what your quoting from the PHB weapon section on ranged weapons, right?

Projectile weapons use ammunition: arrows (for bows), bolts (for crossbows), or sling bullets (for slings). When using a bow, a character can draw ammunition as a free action; crossbows and slings require an action for reloading. Generally speaking, ammunition that hits its target is destroyed or rendered useless, while normal ammunition that misses has a 50% chance of being destroyed or lost.

What this means is that the normal rule for having to use a move action to draw a stored item, does not apply when using a bow to attack on your turn. The archer combines the draw and fire movement is all.

This is why you don't ever hear of archers suddenly yanking arrows out of quivers and stabbing everyone that provokes an AOO around them.

In my personal experience I've seen ONE guy actually take Close Quarter Fighting because he was building a grappling expert fighter. I doubt very much most players with fighters take that feat as "normal" run of the mill fighter stuff. It's a wasted feat if you're not actually focusing on that kind of fighting style.

Funny thing... I use grapple attacks on my gaming group A LOT, yet after 6 years of gaming with me and getting their asses handed to them everytime they face a big, hungry monster that likes to pick their characters up and munch on them, that single player was the FIRST to actually take that feat.

EDIT: I just noticed you're from Germany, Darklone. What part? A fellow writer I collaborated with on a 3-part arc that starts in Dungeon next month lives south of Frankfurt. Know a gamer named Tom Ganz?

 

[Nightfall]

Young adult dragon, preferable Slacerian but not always. Just something where ranged attacks help but he still can miss...

That or incorporeal foes!