Help Me Convice Someone D&D Isn't Evil

[Bagpuss]

Isn't she in breaking your 1st Amendment rights?

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Tinker vs Des Moines Indepentent Community School District, 1969; ruled that the First Amendment applies to student in public schools.

Not sure if it applies here.

Might want to check http://www.aclu.org/students/ for you legal rights.

 

[mythago]

Disallowing your right to play D&D out of ignorant fear is one thing.

In this case, it's a violation of Federal law. That's the big stick he has to whack her with, should gentle persuasion by the parental units fail.

I would still talk to the ACLU about this; they deal with such crap all the time. And nothing works better on petty bullies than learning that their bull has MAJOR consequences. MAJOR.

This isn't a vague matter of violating somebody's rights or of just being a jerk--she should be made aware that she just made a very. big. mistake. The ACLU really lays the smack down in cases like this.

 

[Mean Eyed Cat]

What's cool about the ACLU is that you can become a "card carrying member:"

http://forms.aclu.org/contribute/contribute.cfm

I don't know how much weight it has, but I think it would be cool to walk into your AP's office and whip out your card along with all the resources you have gathered from this thread

I used to work with the court system and sometimes it was amazing how fast people would change their point of view when somebody else had well documented research and legal weight (like the constitution in this case) to argue their point.

Another thing to consider is getting your local media (newspaper, TV station) involved. This could really push her over the edge.

The look on her face could be priceless

 

[s/LaSH]

I'm not even gonna bother looking at all these posts, because I already know everything about this.

First off, if your AP is religious, find out if her "research" comes from religious sources. Get something on paper. If that's the case, go to the SUPERINTENDENT about forced religion, and if HE doesn't listen, then you file a legal petition. It may seem like too much trouble over a game, but it's time to send a message to organized religion.

That said, organized religion itself is the true evil. Organized religion has caused 80% of all the wars and attacks the world has ever seen, including the Crusades and 9/11, and Batholics nor Christians help this one bit. Christians, Catholics, I dislike people involved in ALL organized religion. None of them worship correctly AT ALL, and THAT is a fact. God never said D&D was evil, and contrart to religious belief, D&D does not preach sorcery. Heck, there are people who play even magic-less campaigns out there! The game is whatever the DM makes it, plain and simple.

Like I said, organized religion is evil. I would be very happy if all those people disappeared from the face of the planet, because they try to stick THEIR petty beliefs down our throats. I believe in God and I worship him my own way, Brandon Harwellism I will call it. I worship correctly, those stupid organized religions do not.

It's simple to worship correctly, people. Know your creator, know that there is a power greater than you, and treat all other good people with respect while doing everything in your power to stop the spread of evil. That's all. If it don't hurt any innocent people, it's okay, plain and simple. I'm just sick and tired of the religious nuyts trying to control the lives of people.

I'm sorry, I felt I had to respond to this. See, I'm Catholic, and there's a couple of points I want to clear up here. However, I don't want to get into a flame war, so unless I've made some huge glaring error let's just leave it at this.

1: You do make some good points about evils instigated by organised religion. You did, however, forget the Inquisition, which I know was a Catholic event, and some of the more hideous things missionaries have done to Amazon tribes, including rewriting the Bible to talk about the tribe in question instead of the Jews when it came to instigating the Crucifixion. Oh, and let's not forget the whole Copernicus/Galileo fiasco.

2: I contend that organised religion is not inherently evil. (Then again, I would, wouldn't I? Heheh.) After all, it was monks that largely preserved written works during the Dark Ages. It was a monk who first theorised genetics (Mendel). And then there's Bougainville. It's a large island belonging to Papua New Guinea, just off the border with the Solomon Islands. Because of its rich copper deposits, it's a valuable asset, but the local people got no profit from the mines (I can't remember if they were even allowed to work there). So of course they turned to open armed rebellion. The situation got worse and worse until a Catholic dignitatry (a bishop or archbishop, I recall) managed to start peace talks. Of course, the politicians took over from there, and you'll never hear of the Church's involvement these days because everyone hates us. But that doesn't mean we have to put up with it.

 

[Mirth]

And you seriously claim that D&D doesn't have negative outcomes?

Well, let's just say that if I knew how much "play" I would get later in life, I wouldn't have wasted so much time trying to go after the female "game" during high school and could have devoted even more time to rpgs. Of course, my older self now would never be able to convince my younger self then of that. If any of that made sense...

 

[X-ray Crossbow]

WARNING! IRRATIONAL SCHOOL PERSONNEL ALERT!

Instant evaluation of the principal in question:
A hardass. Dictatorial, authoritarian, controlling, joy-snuffing, soul-destroying, gov't-loving....pseudo-person.

Two heads of the club have played D&D for 4(Fayredeth) and 6 (Me) years and are...

ranked 4th and 5th respectively in the senior class

neither one of us have ever had so much as a detention

we have taken honors and AP classes for all of high school--Fayredeth is independently studying Physics with an intent to take the AP test

I'm President of our Thespian Troupe, Corresponding Secretary of Student Government, flute section leader in band, bass section leader in choir (Madrigal Choir and concert choir), a member of scholastic bowl--and god knows that all of the horrible things I've listed above are because i played that satanic game..."

Most, if not all of our current members are very similarly qualified. More fun examples of why no one likes this woman: she's trying to ban the wearing of hooded sweatshirts at our school. She's also trying to ban spikey haircuts... she just never changes...

As to this...HOW DO YOU FIND THE TIME??

After reading this, my opinion of the situation changes somewhat. Well, let's be honest. It changes a whole lot. If she is seriously trying to pull stunts like this, I would most assuredly heed mythago's advice on investigating the Equal Access Act and contacting your local branch of the ACLU. Disallowing your right to play D&D out of ignorant fear is one thing. Disallowing people to wear their hair in a manner of their choosing (a subject that is quite near and dear to my heart) is taking away ANY rights a person may have to individuality. It sounds to me like this woman is simply an ignorant, close-minded (if not ethno-centric) *@!% who's trying to force her will and ideals upon the school. If the Principal allows it to happen, he's merely a pawn to her game. In my experience, there's NOTHING that people like your AP hate more than the sound of the ACLU heard approaching. That sounds means that she's finally gone too far. It means that she's going to have to accept other peoples' beliefs and ideas, and she won't have a choice in the matter. A lot of people rail the ACLU as being a hard-core leftist organization. Not true. They defend *everyone's* rights. But in this case, it will appear leftist since you're fighting a hard-core right-winger. At any rate, I'm just ranting now. I really think that this is your best option, but you've still got to approach it with the same attitude as with everything else: patience, humility and wisdom. Re-read mythago's post and investigate those options, only when you go make sure you include the hoody/haircut limitations as well. It'll only strengthen your case. But the key is prudence!

First, buddy: use the Enter key.
Second, yes, the ACLU is railed at as a "hard-core left-wing organization", but then I'm a classic left-wing liberal...19th century definitions, of course. The ACLU has done some good things, but then so did Hitler's Germany. Let's not get into this any deeper, this isn't what this thread is about.

Third, USE the ACLU! Contact the local chapter, ask for help in stopping this woman from doing any more damage to the poor chillun's individuality.

DO NOT go behind the AP's back and ignore her! She will come down on yo azz like a ton of bricks!

 

[sawbones]

What's cool about the ACLU is that you can become a "card carrying member:"

http://forms.aclu.org/contribute/contribute.cfm

Another cooll thing about the ACLU, is that it often only takes a letter from the ACLU to scare alot of scools into realizing the rights they are treading upon. I am a subscriber to alt. atheism, and many cases have been discussed there regarding prayer, bible studies, atheist groups, etc. in schools and the school had better be allowing no clubs at all if they want to eliminate a games club. In many cases regarding these issues, the schools backed off with a fax from ACLU

Best
Grant Kinsley MD

PS, you may also want to go to the GAMA website, Mike Stackpole has been pretty relentless in shooting down groups who think that RPGs can be a causative factor in negative outcomes.

 

[Dinkeldog]

I don't like the ideas of sneaking around the subject or backing down. I'd recommend fighting, but I'm not the one that would have to do anything. Good luck, Trev.

 

[Bob Aberton]

That said, organized religion itself is the true evil. Organized religion has caused 80% of all the wars and attacks the world has ever seen, including the Crusades and 9/11, and Batholics nor Christians help this one bit. Christians, Catholics, I dislike people involved in ALL organized religion. None of them worship correctly AT ALL, and THAT is a fact.

Ouch! It burns!

Was that just me, or was that an unprovoked flame...

I sense a flamewar in the offing - time to get out the flame-retardant pajamas...

Seriously, though, I really take exception to that...and I bet a whole lot of other people do, too.

You know what you just did? You just forced your brand of religion down my throat.

What if I think that organzied religion is the right way to worship? I'm wrong, obviously.

But since you think your way is the right way, obviously you're right, right?

I fear that was the first flicker of a coming flamewar, there...

 

[Barcode]

Probably shouldn't have said that...