D&D 5E Help me escape from a grapple!

[Jester David]

RAW, I'd say never solo an Otyugh ever!
It's CR 5, but just a few consecutive bad rolls with your 20th lvl Barbarian, 999 HP and STR 20, and you're poop!

Well, the level 20 barbarian us proficient in Str saving throws and likely has a 24 Str. So they only fail on a 1.
If they were full health and raging for the first minute, it would take 33 rounds of the otyugh spamming the barb against a wall to knock them to 0 hp.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

RAW, I'd say never solo an Otyugh ever!
It's CR 5, but just a few consecutive bad rolls with your 20th lvl Barbarian, 999 HP and STR 20, and you're poop!

1.) The barbarian would have to get hit, and then fail his grapple roll to break free (+3 vs. +13 at advantage is 95.19% chance of success for the barbarian) and then fail his saving throw (+13 at advantage = 99.75% chance of success). It's not a real threat.

2.) It's no worse than what the barbarian can do right back to the otyugh. 40' movement plus javelins is an auto-win against a creature with only 30' movement.

 

[Sage Genesis]

This isn't the only issue 5e has with auto-failing saving throws. The Rod of Lordly Might can paralyze you with a Str save, but it allows you to repeat the save every round... which you will auto-fail because you're paralyzed. The Wand of Paralysis allows you to repeat the initial saving throw every round... except there isn't an initial saving throw. So good luck figuring out the ability score and the DC.

Going by RAI and some fair rulings these don't have to be big problems at the actual table, but I do admit to being a bit disappointed these contradictions made it into the books in the first place.

 

[Pickles III]

This isn't the only issue 5e has with auto-failing saving throws. The Rod of Lordly Might can paralyze you with a Str save, but it allows you to repeat the save every round... which you will auto-fail because you're paralyzed. The Wand of Paralysis allows you to repeat the initial saving throw every round... except there isn't an initial saving throw. So good luck figuring out the ability score and the DC.

Going by RAI and some fair rulings these don't have to be big problems at the actual table, but I do admit to being a bit disappointed these contradictions made it into the books in the first place.

Don't be ridiculous it's the 5e way, rulings not rules!

 

[Nebulous]

Otyughs can be really dangerous:

• If it hits you with a tentacle attack, you're automatically grappled.
• If you're unable to escape in your next turn (DC 13), the Otyugh will slam you against a wall in its turn.
• The slam makes you save STR DC 14 or take damage and be stunned until the end of the Otyugh's next turn.
• Since while stunned you auto-fail STR saves and can't take actions, you literally take auto-damage and renewed-stun every round until you're dead, and you can do NOTHING about it.

Unless someone else in the party frees you from the grapple.
But I couldn't find rules in the PHB about helping a grappled friend.

How would you adjudicate this?
Would you let the helping adventurer roll his own STR/DEX DC 13 instead?
Is the interpretation of the Otyugh attack correct?

Thanks!

I would imagine, like many, many monsters in D&D, you never want to meet one alone for reasons just like this.

 

[Valador]

I tend to follow RAW pretty adamantly. I'm not sure if this is an oversight by the creators, but the auto damage and no chance of a future saving throw is pretty rough. With that said, if I was the DM in a situation like this, this is what I'd do to avoid simply trolling someone to death... I would probably have the creature make a check to maintain the grapple if damaged by the party, also maybe have the creature simply drop the player for whatever reason I felt could be justified by how the creature thinks/acts. Just because it could do something cheap doesn't mean it would 100% of the time based on how it would realistically act.

Also one thing I noticed in the conditions section of the PHB...

It states the Grappled condition ends if the player is incapacitated. The stunned condition inflicts being Incapacitated. Therefore it could be interpreted that once the creature slams you that it lets go...

Sorry if my post seems poorly written... I just woke up and I'm on my phone...

 

[Wik]

I tend to follow RAW pretty adamantly. I'm not sure if this is an oversight by the creators, but the auto damage and no chance of a future saving throw is pretty rough. With that said, if I was the DM in a situation like this, this is what I'd do to avoid simply trolling someone to death... I would probably have the creature make a check to maintain the grapple if damaged by the party,

If there's a party there that's hitting the thing, why make it worse? The whole reason people are worried about this combo is in a one on one. Once the otyugh's got you, it'll kill you unless you've got friends to help you out. If you've got friends to help you out, this monster doesn't really need "fixing".

also maybe have the creature simply drop the player for whatever reason I felt could be justified by how the creature thinks/acts. Just because it could do something cheap doesn't mean it would 100% of the time based on how it would realistically act.

Sure, but I think it'd only drop a character in weird circumstances. You don't see a gator grabbing a gazelle, holding it for eighteen seconds, and then letting go for a bit because "well, gee, it seems unfair that you're failing your strength checks. I'll give you a round to run away before I try again."

We use our advantages to our utmost. Monsters should do the same. Otherwise, it's playing D&D with kiddie gloves on.

Also one thing I noticed in the conditions section of the PHB...

It states the Grappled condition ends if the player is incapacitated. The stunned condition inflicts being Incapacitated. Therefore it could be interpreted that once the creature slams you that it lets go...

It says specifically that the condition ends if the GRAPPLER is incapacitated. If I've got you in a deathlock and you pass out, I don't automatically let go of you ("Gee, you get all slippery when you go limp like that!"). But if, say, I fall asleep when I've got you in a choke because I'm some sort of Narcoleptic Mexican Wrestler, well then, it's your lucky day!

Sorry if my post seems poorly written... I just woke up and I'm on my phone...

Sorry if my reply seems snarky and lippy. I've been up for hours and I'm on a stool.

 

[Valador]

Sorry if my reply seems snarky and lippy. I've been up for hours and I'm on a stool.

Not at all. I stand corrected. I was looking at the PHB on my phone with sleep crusted eyes and read it wrong, my mistake.

As for the creature letting go of the player, I don't control creatures with a lower INT score with a power gaming mindset of "I'm going to chain stun troll something using a one trick gimmick attack because mathematically it's my best ability." etc. I try to assume what the creature may be thinking/feeling and go from there. So to me it's not beyond the realm of possibility that perhaps maybe the creature slams its prey and then drops it thinking "Well hell, I just slammed this thing into a wall, it's gotta be dead now..." or perhaps the attack is done simply out of rage and spontaneously and the creature isn't thinking about any kind of long term strategy. A player could "play dead" to fool the creature into thinking its dead and releasing it.

I'm still waking up, but my point is that because a creature CAN do something doesn't mean that it HAS to or WILL do something.

Anyways, thanks for correcting my mistake above, and I look forward to reading through this thread again after I've had some caffeine...

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

As for the creature letting go of the player, I don't control creatures with a lower INT score with a power gaming mindset of "I'm going to chain stun troll something using a one trick gimmick attack because mathematically it's my best ability." etc. I try to assume what the creature may be thinking/feeling and go from there. So to me it's not beyond the realm of possibility that perhaps maybe the creature slams its prey and then drops it thinking "Well ----, I just slammed this thing into a wall, it's gotta be dead now..." or perhaps the attack is done simply out of rage and spontaneously and the creature isn't thinking about any kind of long term strategy. A player could "play dead" to fool the creature into thinking its dead and releasing it.

An otyugh's goal is to feed, but one could argue that its method of feeding is to slam a creature until it comes apart in a slurry of meaty chunks, which the otyugh then devours by slurping it up from the ground. Obviously you don't have to run otyughs that way, but if that is indeed their modus operandi then playing dead won't work.

 

[Nebulous]

I remember in 4e Pyramid of Shadows there was a nasty trap where a 9th level character was ejected into a chute/pit with an otyugh and diseased rats at the bottom. He died in 2 rounds. NO ONE ELSE EVEN HEARD HIM.