Help me get excited about 2nd Edition.

Advantage - 2e

"I really don't want to play 2nd Edition, but I know other people (especially the DM) do. "

Well, there is your big 2e advantage right there. You have a DM who wants to use it, as do some players. 3e is a superior system only when you can get a DM & players.

So accept that it is brand X and have some fun.
 

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Dual classing was never a waste of time... It was the only reason to play a Human. No level limits, and you catch up soo fast. Dualling classing was what it was all about, at least for me.

9th level? That gives you lot of options. How far into 2e are you guys? We always used an amalgation of 1e and 2e, like I suspect alot of people did. Kensai from OA rocked.

All those griping about 2e really, really have their heads lodged in some wierd place of their anatomy. You have to admire their Dexterity. Others have said it: It aint the system, its the company!

Other cool things about 1e/2e Strength bonus items grant a stat value, not a bonus!
 

It's pretty vanilla FR except you never meet any of the named NPC's (well except the King of Cormyr, who we are working for) and Norse Gods instead of the FR ones.

What I've noticed about the Norse Pantheon, is that unless you worship Loki or Tyr only female priest (Hel, Idun, etc) have access to the healing sphere. When we started the campaign several years ago I played a priestess of Idun, she drowned. I since played a Wizard (now stays in his tower) and most recently a gnome Fighter/Rogue (recently died).

I'm thinking dual class fighter/priest of Tyr at the moment.
 

My sympathies, Bagpuss.

I dug out the old Baldur's Gate disks Sunday and started playing it again. And the thing I've been noticing is that...2e sucks.

I mean, dual class/multiclass? THAC0? Strange saves? Bah.
 


Yeah the flavor of specialty priests in 2e has 3e clerics beat.

Dual classing is pretty good.

The spell compendiums provide a lot of spell options.

There are a ton of cheap ESDs for modules and such.

Proficiencies are sort of like feats and sort of like skills.

Explicit non combat xp awards.
 

It certainly saved recopying the silly chart every level, or referencing for every monster roll.

A few mean reasons to play 2e...

1.) No silly segement casting times!
2.) Clerics for all races!
3.) Races not equal to classes
4.) Bards are a first level character class!

No offense to 1e or OD&D players. Seriously.
 

Good things about 2e

For your Norse priest, think about modifying the Specialty Priest of Shaundakul from Faiths and Avatars (the old, not new) into a Norse priest of Skadi (a jotunn adopted into the Aesir, goddess of travelers, wanderers, and skiing), or Helm/Torm (I forget which one is which) into a priest of Thor, or Tyr (who is already pretty close to the Norse version). All of these classes were very cool and not ill-balanced in my opinion.

Other things to like about 2nd edition:

1) Slower level advancement. By the time your character earns a new level, they've had the opportunity to practice all their skills. 3e is a bit frustrating that way from an RP perspective -- I feel like your character is 4th or 5th level already before you've had a chance to get to know them!

2) Spellcasters can multiclass and still throw high-level spells. MU/Thief is an awesome, if fragile combo. The elven F/MU is also classic, and just can't be done anymore in 3rd ed.

(Aside: 3e forces HP, BAB, saves to be on par with the rest of the party, while class powers are much lower. 2e has class powers only a little lower, but HP, BAB and saves lag behind as well.) I never saw this as a serious balance issue as some did, since multiclassers couldn't specialize in any way they never overshadowed the single-classers in campaigns that I played in.)

3) Dex bonus to AC not limited by armor, so you don't run into the 18-20 practical limit. I personally have never swallowed WotC's argument for this, although most people accept it. In the old 1st edition PH, Gary Gygax explicity states that the reason the difference between plate mail and chain mail (for example) is only 10% is that the heavier armor impedes your movement--so the flexibility penalty was already built into the slow AC progression for heavier armors. It still doesn't make sense to me that someone with dex 18 in plate mail is no better off than someone with dex 10 in plate mail.

4) Str bonus to hit is only about 1/2 the damage bonus, so you don't have fighters with close to 100% hit rate by 5th level, and power attacking creatures into oblivion before the second string arrives.

5) The complete handbooks are mostly very good. Psionics is much better than 3rd edition and I never found it to be a campaign-breaker. Fighters has a lot of cool options for group proficiencies and fighting styles, some of which are roughly equivalent to feats. And remember, NWP's can be used on weapon stuff too so there's a good reason to play high-INT fighters.

6) Kits, although many of them were horrible, at least give the DM and you a framework by which the basic classes can be tweaked.

7) Spells & Powers was a really, really cool supplement with well thought-out options for alternative specialists and magic systems. Recommend it to your DM and think about playing an alienist wizard from level 1. See how high you can get before turning into a glibbering maniac.

8) Skills, when you get them, work well pretty much right away--they're more like feats in that way but not all that bad.

9) Wishes, when you get them, can do things outside the bounds of normal magic and break the rules.

10) Arbitrary restrictions can actually enhance RP opportunities.

11) Interrupting spells with well-timed damage is always fun!

I had a halfling locksmith who really wanted to be a wizard, and was planning on wishing to dual-class into it if he ever got a wish. His spellcraft was very high and he was often able to interrupt enemy spells with his sling.

Hope this helps. There's a lot to enjoy in any edition of D&D and each has unique advantages.

--Ben
 

1.) Rangers are amazing in 2e. Stealth skills, some minor spells, THE BEST TRACKER IN THE GAME. TWF is useful with longsword/shortsword + high Str.

TWF was broken in 2e, and you still were called "Mr. Ginsu" - not that the latter changed in 3.0e. Anyway, it wasn't the Tracking bonus that I disliked (that was cool) but the stupid -6 penalty to non-rangers. Why?!?!

The alignment restriction was also a bad idea. If you turned evil, you forgot how to track and fight with two weapons?[/quote]

2.) Exceptional Strength. Get more for your 18!

Broken.

3.) Specialty priests. More flavor for your priest.

True. Some were broken, but there's broken stuff in 3e as well.

4.) Specialist Wizards with some power!

That is incorrect. Please look at the specialist wizard in the 3e PHB. Hey look, illusionists can throw real Fireballs.

5.) Half-Orcs, Barbarians, Monks, Ninjas, Psionics, and Assassins are only one source book away (each).

In 3e, you only have to buy a new book for ninjas and psionics.

6.) Planescape.

We are in fundamental agreement.

7.) More classic archetypes.

Maybe.

No ranger1/rogueX!

2e rangers were still broken Mr. Ginsu's.

8.) Bards with full wizards spells, bonus NWP's, good weapon selection.

Hmmm... I've never played a 2e or 3e bard :D

9.) CORE RULES 2 + EXPANSION.

?

10.) Half-elves are amazing.

True.

11.) Wizard and Priest Spell Comphendiums

Aren't there 3e books like this?

12.) Some of the better kits are fun to play.

True, but you can convert them.

13.) Specialization at level one.

Okay, but there wasn't Weapon Focus. 2e rogues were so very wimpy. Abilities like Weapon Finesse didn't exist, and how often did you get a backstab?

14.) Multiclassed Mage/Clerics with high level spells.

Okay...

15.) Wonderful 2e spells now weakened in 3e. Phantasmal Killer, Horrid Wilting, Find Traps

Save DCs didn't apply in 2e. Your Horrid Wilting spell only ever did half damage.

Anyway, 2e didn't have a CR system, and how would the DM know if a +3 weapon was too much for their 15th-level PC? They didn't.
 

rounser said:
It's just stupid that you have to play a "virtual swashbuckler" until then, when you get the Official Stamp of Swashbucklerdom.
Wow, where do I get this Stamp? Who stamps my character sheet with it?

Nonsense. Stuff and nonsense.

If you want to play in such a manner that you won't allow a player to call their character anything that isn't written down in the "class" box on their character sheet, go ahead. That doesn't mean I have to play that way.

I can call my character a Swashbuckler no matter what classes, feats, abilities or skills he has. I can call him a Fighter, or yes, even a Druid. He may in fact BE a Druid, if I happen to play in a campaign where Druids are social construct rather than purely a game construct.

Barsoom has Sorcerers. They aren't PHB sorcerers, because I don't use PHB magic. "Sorcerer", on Barsoom, is just a generic term for anyone who uses magic. And ANYONE on Barsoom can use magic, if they have the guts and the stomach for it. So yeah, I can take a couple of feats, throw some skill points in Spellcraft and call my Rogue a Sorcerer.

You seem really hung up on "Official Stamps" and such. Which is fine, go ahead, make those things important. But they aren't important a prioiri, they're important only because you've decided to make them important. I don't have to make that choice. And I don't.
 

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