Help me get excited about 2nd Edition.

[Thorvald Kviksverd]

Taking inspiration from the "Archmage", perhaps it would be worthwhile to re-name most PrCs?

Expert Tracker

Veteran Swashbuckler

Senior Whatever...

In this way, you could start at 1st level as a Tracker, Swashbuckler, or Whatever, and then gradually become more proficient in your chosen profession--eventually becoming a recognized, experienced, and respected professional.

I know it's just semantics--but sometimes they can make all the difference.

One man's molehill, and all that...

 

[Greatwyrm]

The best thing I can say about 2e, two to three years after a 5 year 2e campaign ended, is that it's not too difficult to convert 2e stuff to 3e. That's probably not really encouraging, though.

Heck, if you want to do a throwback game, get a Rules Cyclopedia and go back to Basic. I think it was smoother than 2e anyway.

 

[rounser]

You seem really hung up on "Official Stamps" and such. Which is fine, go ahead, make those things important. But they aren't important a prioiri, they're important only because you've decided to make them important. I don't have to make that choice. And I don't.

It's just an annoyance, I'm not "really hung up" on them. Can't ask for a damn improvement in the system without the "it's good enough as it is, it doesn't need to be improved" brigade for whom 3E can do no wrong trying to make you seem unreasonable...or even point out that 2E did this better in one way at least, because you could take it from first level if it was your character concept from the start, oh no...stuff and nonsense indeed - you can stuff your own nonsense - that it wouldn't be better if you could give a character a prestige/kit/class when it's more campaign and character appropriate and less arbitrarily system appropriate for archetypes which don't imply high level prereqs - "mate"!

 

[Davelozzi]

Anyway, 2e didn't have a CR system, and how would the DM know if a +3 weapon was too much for their 15th-level PC? They didn't.

The DM would use his judgement and make a decision based on what was appropriate for his campaign, which was a lot easier to do because there weren't all these built in assumptions about how much a character should have when, etc.

In my opinon, the CR system is no substitute for good old fashioned DM'ing from experience, there's just too many variables from group to group to boil things down to a science. In fact, although I might get flamed for this, I'll admit that for my games, the CR system is just as much (if not more) a hindrance than a help. Now I know that people will say "Well if that's what you think, why don't you just ignore it?" And while part of me agrees, the other part of me says using the CR system is like staring at the sun during an eclipse - it doesn't matter that you know you shouldn't do it, when its right there in front of you, it draws your eyes like moths to a flame.

Depite my opinion on CR, I still maintain that 3e is a much better system, and if I was to ever re-start any of my old 2e campaigns (which I often think about doing), I would definately convert them to 3e. The time involved would definately pay off.

But, Bagpuss, since the people you're playing with insist on 2e, I'll have to agree with those that have said that the biggest thing to lok forward to is that you have a game going at all. Also, I did like the specialty priests much better than the 3e cleric. And although some may have been overpowered, if anything that actually helped as it made it easier to convince someone to play the much needed priest.

 

[Bagpuss]

Hmm, rolling up my character now. Ah now I remember AD&D anything less than a 16 in an attribute is pretty pointless.

 

[Voneth]

It's like taking levels of ranger and cleric and saying "look, I'm a Druid!"

I'll have to try that, it actualy sounds cool if I want to play a more stealthy, combat durid type. And I get more spells!

It's an unpleasing aspect of 3E for me, and with luck it'll be addressed next edition by not staving off rules-backed character concepts until high level.

For all editions of DnD, this is the one thing I don't get with those who love the game so much. One minute, people want an "offical" this and an a "offical" that, as if TSR or WotC stamp on a DM's idea any more vaild than anyone elses. And yet, everyone is proud of all their house rules they make up along the way.

Frankly if it wasn't for this split personality of wanting to do things "creatively" along with this pathological need of "offical" acceptance, DnD would have died out ages ago.

 

[JPL]

Taking inspiration from the "Archmage", perhaps it would be worthwhile to re-name most PrCs?

Expert Tracker

Veteran Swashbuckler

Senior Whatever...

In this way, you could start at 1st level as a Tracker, Swashbuckler, or Whatever, and then gradually become more proficient in your chosen profession--eventually becoming a recognized, experienced, and respected professional.

I know it's just semantics--but sometimes they can make all the difference.

One man's molehill, and all that...

Or make each prestige class a particular order or school, with a name to match [which is how a lot of them work already].

So anyone can call themselves an assassin and be a professional killer...but the Order of the Silent Blade [the renamed Assassin prestige class] are a particular group.

And more than one alternate name could be applied, so that members of different groups could have similar abilities.

 

[Ravellion]

IMO:

Outlaw of the crimson road, Ninja of the Crescent moon = Good prestige class naming

Vigilante, Duelist, Archmage = bad prestige class naming

Exactly because of the "stamping" issues named up to now.

Rav

 

[rounser]

For all editions of DnD, this is the one thing I don't get with those who love the game so much. One minute, people want an "offical" this and an a "offical" that, as if TSR or WotC stamp on a DM's idea any more vaild than anyone elses. And yet, everyone is proud of all their house rules they make up along the way.

Erm, what about saving time, such that you wouldn't need to rewrite them if they got it right (according to you) next edition? I'd also venture that 3E "feels" less conducive to house ruling of the complete subsystem overhaul style compared to say, 1E, (mostly because everythings tightly integrated, and if you change this then that won't work, which means you need to tweak something else etc.) and I agree that the game's been progressively encouraging more "official" handholding ever since AD&D 1E...although the results haven't really manifested until this edition...but that's another thread.

 

[barsoomcore]

Can't ask for a damn improvement in the system without the "it's good enough as it is, it doesn't need to be improved" brigade for whom 3E can do no wrong trying to make you seem unreasonable...or even point out that 2E did this better in one way at least, because you could take it from first level if it was your character concept from the start, oh no...stuff and nonsense indeed - you can stuff your own nonsense - that it wouldn't be better if you could give a character a prestige/kit/class when it's more campaign and character appropriate and less arbitrarily system appropriate for archetypes which don't imply high level prereqs - "mate"!

Wow, that was all one sentence! Very impressive.

I hope you're not lumping me into the "it's good enough..." brigade. I'm just trying to point out that you're complaining about restrictions you yourself have imposed. As I've said before, I never played 2E so I can't offer any sort of informed opinion as to whether or not it was better.

This is great stuff, really:

it wouldn't be better if you could give a character a prestige/kit/class when it's more campaign and character appropriate and less arbitrarily system appropriate for archetypes which don't imply high level prereqs

Who said that it wouldn't be better? I didn't, anyway. I just said that I can call my character a Swashbuckler anytime I like, and I'm just as "official" as any other yahoo, whatever prestige class he happens to have.

I think what you're talking about is making up new classes. Which last time I checked, was not punishable by death. Or possibly, altering pre-req's for existing prestige classes so that a character could take them at first level (which I think kinda takes the "prestige" out and makes them just classes, but never mind). Which is also, I believe, within the realm of possibility.

You're still complaining about something you've done to yourself.

I do stuff my own nonsense. Keeps it fluffy.